In episode one of Authentic Living: The Podcast for a Better Life, publisher and author Kim Eley asks philosophy expert, sales extraordinaire, and Authentic Living co-host John Voris about Authentic Systems, a program he created that took him from door-to-door sales failure and doom to overwhelming success.
His innovative program allowed him to understand what motivated people’s buying decisions, and John soon realized that these insights could help people in other areas of their lives, too.
On the podcast, John shares how he crafted Authentic Systems based on his extensive research into human behavior, giving listeners an inside view into his groundbreaking methodology and why being your authentic self matters.
He also provides invaluable advice on how to analyze people’s deep-seated motivations in order to make persuasive sales and lead a successful life.
Tune in to hear more about John Voris and Authentic Systems.
For more information go to johnvoris.com
Are you Love, Justice, Wisdom or Power?
Click Here to Take the questionnaire to Discover Your Life Theme
Work 1-on-1 with John Voris
Learn about the ultimate journey of self discovery with the ALTA Assessment
Purchase John's book on The Four Life Themes
Discover the Power That Drives Your Personality
In episode one of Authentic Living: The Podcast for a Better Life, publisher and author Kim Eley asks philosophy expert, sales extraordinaire, and Authentic Living co-host John Voris about Authentic Systems, a program he created that took him from door-to-door sales failure and doom to overwhelming success.
His innovative program allowed him to understand what motivated people’s buying decisions, and John soon realized that these insights could help people in other areas of their lives, too.
On the podcast, John shares how he crafted Authentic Systems based on his extensive research into human behavior, giving listeners an inside view into his groundbreaking methodology and why being your authentic self matters.
He also provides invaluable advice on how to analyze people’s deep-seated motivations in order to make persuasive sales and lead a successful life.
Tune in to hear more about John Voris and Authentic Systems.
For more information go to johnvoris.com
Are you Love, Justice, Wisdom or Power?
Click Here to Take the questionnaire to Discover Your Life Theme
Work 1-on-1 with John Voris
Learn about the ultimate journey of self discovery with the ALTA Assessment
Purchase John's book on The Four Life Themes
Discover the Power That Drives Your Personality
Kim:
John. Welcome. Hello.
John:
Oh, hello. Glad To be here.
Kim:
Me too, too. So, so for today's topic, we want to talk about John's origin stories. So you guys know, every superhero has an origin story to share. And John, you have a great story. So would you please tell our listeners about the time when you were a door-to-door salesman? So, first, just to give the full background, describe for our listeners what door-to-door sales are.
John:
Well, in my day, that was when you drove around in industrial areas or downtown, city areas. And you knocked on businesses, not homes, but businesses. And so, it was door to door. So I might take a street in a downtown, area, and, and I might see a beautician. I might see an insurance, a sales rep. I see a doctor, I might see an accountant. I might see an attorney. I might see somebody, running a general store. And so these are the people I called on. And what I did is I sold them food.
Kim:
Hmm.
John:
So, that's sounds very bizarre, but have you, um, what is it? the, oh, I'm just trying to think of the truck.
Kim:
Oh, is it Schwan's
John:
Swan's truck? Yes. Schwan. Yeah. So I was Swan, but with no truck
Kim:
<laugh>. So,
John:
So what I did is I had a brochure stack of brochures and an invoice book. And I would go door to door and I would be selling ham, roast, beef, pastrami, beef jerky, all kinds of things. And then after I sold it to them, I didn't take any money. What I did is the, place in order with the company, and then they delivered it the following week.
Kim:
Ah, gotcha. Gotcha. So, when you got into door to door sales, is this a career that you thought you'd be doing in college?
John:
Oh, not at all. In fact, when I went, when I went to college, at first, I wanted to get into law, and I did later, but I, I didn't, I didn't care for it. But while I was in, in college, I did door to door sales jobs, and, and now would be companies like Cutco Cutlery, Encyclopedia Britannica, believe it or not. And, all these things where you go door to door, now you're in homes, residential area. And, I was terrible at it.
I got fired four times in a row, and then I quit three times. I just gave up. And what it was was rejection just over and over and over again. So I gave it up and I did go to law school.
I didn't care for it. And then I bought a delicatessen, because my end goal was to buy a business. Anyway, so yeah, I bought a delicatessen. I kept it for a few years and then sold it. One of my vendors said, “why don't you work for us and, and sell our products, but we're gonna do wholesale? We're gonna go to, grocery stores, delicatessens, restaurants, things like that. I thought that'd be a great idea.”
Kim:
Right.
John:
So I sold the deli, but about, in the same month, he called up and he said, “Well, I'm sorry, we're gonna have to file for bankruptcy.”
Kim:
Oh, no,
John:
“But John, don't worry because we're gonna go back to, how the business started, which is door to door sales.”
Kim:
No. Oh, God.
John:
So now I'm facing seven failures. And I was married. I mean, my wife stayed home, which is fine, but she didn't work. And we had one daughter. So now, and that was really…can you imagine how terrifying that had to be? With that, and I think about it then it was just mind boggling. Looking at total failure. And now we have total responsibility.
So what I had to do was research why there was so much failure in sales training.
Kim:
Well, I can imagine it was probably really hard to get rejected over and over again. Oh, yeah.
John:
<laugh>. Oh, absolutely.
Kim:
So, so what changed?
John:
Well, so what I did is…when I was…when I graduated from Berkeley, I graduated in philosophy and I focused on language. And what I learned was when I could, when I learned was in sales training, they really don't get into language, how it works, how, what, what, how it functions, how it influences people. And so there was a great deal of information that was missing.
And so, I realized that the, that in this country, it's actually, it's called Western psychology, it has a label. And then there's continental psychology and I, and in the philosophy readings I've had, sources of, continental or European psychology. It was, a source and they were very different. It come from the approach of what it means to be human. Whereas, the West Street psychology is analytic.
It's, it's just full of definitions. And for example, they, there's book I'm thinking of is the diagnostic book on, psychology. It’s all definitions and categories. And the problem is, is people don't, can't always be put in these categories.
So what the European psychologist does is start from the perspective of what it means to be human. And that it gave all the answers that I was looking for. In fact, I, I eliminated or got rid of everything I ever learned in sales.
Kim:
Oh my gosh.
John:
Took this off.
Kim:
You just threw it all out. Yeah. Threw it all out. Started over.
So based on the psychology, I'm curious to know about that. How did that influence how you started over? Like what, what did you start over with?
John:
Oh, good. So everything was an experiment. And so, it took me about three months of trial and error. Three months of, “I'll use this approach and see if it works, and I'll use another approach and see if it works.” And then finally, I, I found something that was working, It took about five months. And, and it created a model for me to follow. And that model was very successful, and I ended up in door to door sales for 20 years.
Kim:
Wow.
John:
Yes.
Kim:
Oh my goodness.
John:
So I went from seven failures to 20 years. And the only reason why that happened is because I completely, completely eliminated everything I learned in this country from sales. And I focused totally on European psychology.
Kim:
Oh my gosh.
So, one thing I wanna know is, is, you know, you had had sales training before, correct?
John:
Yes.
Kim:
You went out. What happened? Were you able to use that sales training or what would happen if, if you went out and, and tried to use the sales training that the companies would provide for you?
John:
Well, what they would do is they would, first of all, they'd script you. And so that's first problem is that, it's, it works. It's if you have the personality to match it. So if you have a…you can imagine if John Wayne took on the roles of Joe Peci, how would that look? Right? So…and that's very, very important. So what we’re saying has to resonate with who you are, and it has to resonate with how you're being perceived by your prospects.
Kim:
So when you're talking about scripting, I'm envisioning, um, and I think we're all familiar with telemarketers, right? So somebody calls up and they're like, “Hello, Mr. Voris, I'd like to talk to you about blah, blah, blah.” That that's what you're talking about with the scripted sales. Right?
John:
Right. Exactly. And…so what I had to do was eliminate that. And so I did. And so I would walk up, if you were my prospect, I would say, “Hello. How are you doing that this afternoon? have you ever seen, our line?” You say, “line of what?” <laugh>
Kim:
Very good.
John:
“Oh, I'm sorry. Here's my, here's my brochure. listen, I'll tell you what, Have you ever seen one of our hams?” And you'd say, “No.” And I would go out in the car and bring one in. In the meantime, you're looking at the list.
Kim:
Uh-huh. <affirmative>.
John:
That's all I did. I didn't, I didn't say what company I was from. I never said my name. I didn't say anything, but I usually started it off with, “That's a very interesting backdrop. Do you, how are you?” And you say, “Well, I'm in a studio.” “Oh, really? And I see a glass window over there. Is there anything you could see anything interesting over there? <laugh>.” So, so suddenly I'm getting into your world in the moment.
Kim:
Ah, gotcha. And, and I take it the scripts that you were normally given wouldn't go there?
John:
Wouldn't do that at all. No. No. And then I would say, “Oh, oh, by the way, incidentally, have you ever seen one of our hams?” And you'd say, “No,” and I’d say, “here's our brochure.”
Kim:
So what was the difference between the scripted react, the scripted approach, and then this new approach that you took?
John:
Okay, So what I learned from symbolism, taught in Europe, heavily in Europe, is that everything is a symbol. All that means is every object has a name.
Kim:
Mm-hmm.
John:
So if I, if I were to ask you, “can you list some symbols to me?” What would you come up with?
Kim:
Um, my thought is like traffic signs. Like, octagonal red is stop, and yellow triangle is yield <laugh>. Very basic.
John:
Good. Okay. Yeah. That, that's exactly what people do. And they might say, “Well, letters are symbols and logos or symbols”. And so what they're doing is they're reciting are created symbols. What if I said that backdrop is a symbol?
Kim:
Hmm.
John:
What if I said the floor is a symbol? The windows are symbols. Then all of a sudden your world opens up to, “wait a minute, what does that mean?”
And what that means is you're sitting in a place that, that is resonating, certain symbolic meaning that you in this moment are attaching yourself to. And maybe it, the soundproof booth is what you're after.
Kim:
Gotcha. So help me out here. So with symbols, what, how would that relate to sales? You would walk in and pick up on symbols in the office?
John:
Okay…yeah….I don't, Yes, that would, I would do that. But, you could start off with, “what does it mean?” Let's say, “what would it mean to be a, a master carpenter?”
Kim:
Hmm.
John:
Ok. So what do you to be a master carpenter? So I'll just start off with, just say, you need to be patient, Don't you?
Kim:
Definitely detail oriented,
John:
You would be detailed. Right. Okay. Um, have a good sense of space?
Kim:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
John:
And so I would see this, and I'm saying, “These are, these have symbolic meaning already.”
Kim:
Okay.
John:
Okay. So this person is doing this, which means that what they're doing is expressing who they are.
Kim:
Okay.
John:
And it's out in the open. Anybody could read this.
Kim:
Gotcha. So you would use the symbols around people to read them. Is that correct?
John:
No, exactly. Oh, you've got, you've got a carpenter.
And so I would say, “Okay, what does it need to be?” And then as I approach the business, then I'm seeing objects that conform to my initial assumption. But now it's getting a very…accurate and specific.
Kim:
Gotcha, gotcha.
John:
Well, so let's say I saw this individual who did the finishing work on boats and everything is so smooth and cut perfectly. And so I would look at those and say that, “that is amazing. And, how do you, how do you do that?”
And so what I would do is learn is who he is by knowing who I'm not. Cause I'm not a master carpenter, and I do not work on boats. Why? Because I don't have these characteristics.
Okay. So, so by knowing that I start asking him about things I'm observing, and he doesn't know what I'm doing at all. And so he's validating. “Yeah. Well, that took for hours to cut out that one part,” or “Yeah. I, I have to glue that and,” and just whatever it has to, he has to do. And so then when he's talking about it, he gets very excited.
Kim:
Gotcha.
John:
And by getting excited, he's really, he's, I'm really seeing the…pleasure and satisfaction he is deriving from his career, which tells me he's expressing his authentic identity.
Kim:
So I think I've got it.
So instead of walking in scripted to someone and, you know, laying on this script that may or may not resonate with them, you would go in, observe the situation, identify symbols, and then start asking questions based on what you've observed. Is that correct?
John:
Sure. Absolutely.
Kim:
Ah, gotcha.
John:
Everything…every assumption I make, I have to have validated.
Kim:
What…what…how would it validate? Excellent. We're gonna take a short break, but John, this is fantastic. So I wanna ask you more about this and your origin story when we come back.
<BREAK>
Kim:
All right. And, okay, we're back now, John. So what, before we left, you were describing how you changed your approach to sales. How did it work as far as success-wise? I mean, did, did it change how, how you—
John:
Absolutely. When I, when I was…door to door selling, I sold to 12 to 14 out of 20, 20 people that I've never seen before.
Kim:
Oh my gosh.
John:
That's about 70%—that was my average.
Kim:
That's not normal.
John:
No, it isn't. 5% was normal.
Kim:
Gosh!
John:
5%. What I would do is, I'd actually start off with…let's say we're traveling across the country and we go into a town. We know if it's a prosperous town. If people look down and out, maybe it's a dangerous town. I mean, everybody feels it. Right?
Kim:
Right.
John:
This exactly what I would do is to feel the surroundings and change my perspective in the moment as I'm doing it. So the beginning would be walking down the street and looking at buildings.
Buildings have an expression, a symbolic expression, everyone does. So what is that? So if I, I remember one was a huge rock building, and that tells me, this individual, someone inside me, I mean, this is stretching it. Maybe someone of power will like this building the owner only the owner. And so, that's, I just put [that info] in the back of my head. I don't make anything of it. But then what I do is, as if I approach and I open up the door and I'm looking around and I'm still reading symbols, if I don't like what I see, I close the door.
Kim:
That's—
John:
Or just walk out, or just give them a brochure and walk out. I don't say anything. I don't say anything that's important.
Kim:
Ah.
John:
Because if I don't say anything, I don't count it.
Kim:
Gotcha.
John:
Then I go to the next building, Oh…this looks like a good prospect. And I say hello. And I start, I have to count it. I might walk past five businesses and…walk in the sixth. And so I'm not gonna count those five. So that means that when I say I sell 12 out of 14, 12 and 14 out of 20, I might pass 30 businesses.
Kim:
Gotcha. Gotcha.
John:
Now, if you use the American paradigm of one business after another, this is impossible. These statistics cannot happen.
Kim:
Gotcha.
John:
But I don't do that. I read…the buildings, I read the people, and then I came in, it was very consistent. And…the reason, the reason why is because I clung to one sentence that I made up:
The human mind has only one need. That is the perpetual need to express their authentic identity through objects, people, and events.
Kim:
Amazing.
John:
So I hold that as an absolute truth.
Kim:
So I imagine by doing that, you probably saved yourself not only a lot of rejection, but also saved time as well. It seems like it was very effective!
John:
<laugh>. Oh, absolutely. And…yeah, rejection was the first aspect I had to eliminate. And I did that…I didn't play many…methods play with it. Then they'll say, “Well, the more you see, the more you sell.” You know, it's just part of the [sales] game. And that's how they approach it. No, you have the ability to change your feeling of rejection. You have the tools inside yourself. And that's what I used.
Kim:
Yeah.
John:
And so one was, believe me, this is counterintuitive <laugh>, but I was in the car and I would say to myself, I can't sell. I don't wanna sell <laugh>. I'm terrible at selling. People don't like me at all—
Kim:
<laugh>.
John:
And in fact, if someone wants to buy something, I wonder if I'm gonna even sell it to them!
Kim:
Oh my gosh.
John:
All I was doing is taking that…how do you say it? Taking the sales façade away and destroying it.
What I end up with is…all I want to do is make a friend.
Kim:
I love that. And really, I imagine it…you, you have a different energy when you come into meeting someone saying, ‘I'd like to make a friend” versus “I'd like to make a sale.” <laugh>.
John:
And especially if…your language changes, your attitude changes and they pick up on that. [If not] people will feel that [and] the walls go up.
Kim:
Oh, so true. I think that's why sometimes like car salesmen give people the heebee geebees because they're all like, “Hey, how are you today?” Very disingenuous.
John:
“You and I both have clothes. Hey, we got something in common!”
Kim:
Right? <laugh>. So I want to know, how did you take what you…learned and then go on to expand it, to [create] what you use now, Authentic Systems?
John:
Okay…ifit's true that we use objects, people, in advance to express who we are, and you could read those objects, people and events to discover who they are, then the question is how do you want to apply it so we can apply it with relationships…apply it with sales…marketing…anything in business, it doesn't matter what it is.
Kim:
That's so cool!
John:
Because as long as you're—what I really liked about it is it takes the guessing out. I don't have to guess anything. Right. I'm actually seeing immediately who this person is by looking at the surrounding.
Kim:
That's so awesome. You know what, John, it's making me think of a, have you ever heard the saying, “Read the room?” Meaning somebody will come in and they'll tell an off-color joke or, or do something inappropriate. It's like, “didn't you read the room?”
John:
Exactly. You know, that's part—that's one aspect—for example, we have the sense of we know we know what we want.
Kim:
Mmm-hmm.
John:
But the quote…my question was: why do we want to want what we want?
Kim:
Oh, ooh. I like that. Okay.
John:
That's going to be the answer. If you're in relationships, if you're selling whatever you're doing,
Kim:
Absolutely.
John:
And even you can turn it on yourself.
Kim:
Oh, I love that. And that's so true. ‘Cause like the very first relationship we have is with ourselves to get to know ourselves.
John:
Well, that, that's brings me up your book Tickers. Oh, that's what I liked about it, is it is what it is. An example of discovering what makes people tick. And what I'm doing is the same thing in a different way. I'm finding their authentic identity. And you, you found it too. But the difference is, is you have offered an example, concrete example of what it is like for someone to actually access their own authentic identity.
Kim:
Aw, well, thank you. And, yes. That resonated with me so much.
When you and I first met, we talked about my book—because I interviewed people who love what they do. I've met tons of people who hate what they do. I was like, “What if people do who love what they do?”
John:
Right.
Kim:
And so that was the commonality, was they…huh. I guess their lives were unscripted in a sense. They, they were just following what resonated with them, what they wanted to do.
So yeah. It was…exciting to…have those concrete examples. But you, through Authentic Systems, were able to help me understand why the people acted the way they did, and you know, what, why the paths that they chose really, really resonated with them.
John:
Exactly. That's exactly what I'm, I'm up to. And, 55% of the people are not happy with their jobs.
Kim:
Mm.
John:
There's a high percentage that don't feel secure in their jobs.
Kim:
Yeah.
John:
And the reason why is because they don't separate out what, what you can do, what you could do, what you should do, and what you must do. They don't separate that out. Everything's what I can do.
“You know, I can be a mortician.” Well, sure. [That’s true] but you're talking about the ability. But that's not going to make you happy.
Kim:
Right.
John:
Right. That's…why many people go into sales because, no experience is required…no degree is required, and you really can make as much money as you want. But it has to do with you as a human being and what you're all about.
Kim:
Absolutely. And…that's why I'm so excited about this podcast. [We originally] titled it Authentic Relationships…because like we touched on…your very first relationship is with yourself. But once you, we, all evolve past ourselves and talk to other people as well, we have to figure out how to get along with one another. We have to learn how to read the room in all our relationships.
So you've used Authentic Systems…with marriages…[and] careers. Can you share with us some of the other ways that, that you've…other type people you've, you've used with Authentic Systems?
John:
I…there was a couple that was really having a problem. And one of my discoveries in the research, European research is, the difference between people wanting a physical and abstract result.
Kim:
Hmm!
John:
So…for example, myself—I'm after an abstract result. My wife is after physical results. So my wife would call up and say, “By the way, I picked up your laundry at the laundromat.” That's a physical action she did for me to show affection. I call up and say, “How'd you like to go to dinner tonight?” And…I'm creating an abstract atmosphere.
Kim:
Gotcha.
John:
But she could say, “You never do enough around the house.”
Kim:
<laugh>.
John:
And I can say, “You never invite me out to dinner.”
Kim:
Ah-ha.
John:
So this is what this kind of—what happened with a couple that I had is they were really communicating the same affection, but they, the other person, wasn't picking up on it. Once they did, their arguments disappeared. Most of them were related to that. Disappeared.
Kim:
That's fantastic.
John:
They stayed together.
Kim:
That's so cool.
John:
Now this happens with, you know, an architect. An architect understands the concept of what he's trying to do, or he or she. And then you have the carpenter, and they have to understand the physical side of what this mental image is. And quite often he's at the carpenter is after [the] physical result, and the architect is after abstract result, and they argue constantly,
Kim:
Oh my gosh.
John:
And I saw that one.
Kim:
And…the…family disputes…You know, friends not seeing eye to eye, you know, people having misunderstandings.
I'm going to say, when they learn about Authentic Systems, they can then understand other people better. First they understand themselves, and then other people to be able to maybe get rid of some of these petty fights or, or jumping to conclusions.
John:
Yes. Now, you had an example of someone that was power. Can you tell us that?
Kim:
Oh, absolutely. Glad to. So…I worked with an awesome client….and when she and I first got on the phone together—<laugh>. So full disclosure, I've had my [Authentic Systems] assessment done. So I know that my life theme is very different from a power life theme. And when, as we go into further podcasts, we're gonna talk about…the life themes.
But…this person, I realized, she responded well to power…meaning…she frequently would name drop people. “I took studies with so and so,” and was very much about prestige. And so I was able to figure out, based on how she was talking, kind of, and you taught me this…that her language was really a symbol, the things that she was saying symbolized and showed what she cared about. I was able to modify how I spoke and be able to speak to her in her language. And it worked really well, because normally I think the way she spoke candidly kind of grated on my nerves because I was like, “Who does she think she is?”
John:
Got it.
Kim:
Got it. But once I understood her, we had a great conversation. We worked together, and we actually published her book together. And it was a fantastic experience because I understood where she was coming from.
John:
Right…conflict is another area that I have used authentic systems. And it's—for example, there was…one woman [who] was responsible for logistics. What she did is she…social events…she generated the social events in the town…then you had sales people outside and trying to fill in the venue. And they always fought.
People who were in sales were after abstract results. And she was after physical results because she actually had to get it done.
Kim:
Gotcha.
John:
So it was always back and forth, and they weren't communicating. I…assessed all three. And then, one called me up and said, “Oh, I had so much fun. I was so angry at whoever it was. and I then I realized in the moment that she was after the physical results, and I'm abstract, and I, I, she said she laughed!”
Kim:
<laugh>
John:
Laughed for herself, <laugh>, and then went in the off when her office and explained what just happened. They all…really get it now.
Kim:
Right, right, right!
So as we wrap up…I want to just say this is a foreshadowing of future episodes that we're going to have. What we'll do is we'll explore Authentic Relationships…[and] we'll learn more about Authentic Systems.
John:
So you're going to share with us…we'll also talk about Tickers and some of the people you've met along the way and give some real life examples.
Kim:
I'm excited too, because we're going to sometimes…have some speakers who are featured and…we'll talk about various topics, but there's so much to explore. This is really exciting.
John:
Oh, yes. There's—well, in fact…I did this for 20 years and then retired in about 2004. And I spent the rest of the time researching. And as I research, I am getting into so many other aspects where this works.
Kim:
Oh, fantastic!
John:
It's all archetypal. I'm…not a psychologist and psychiatrist. I'm not interested in people's problems. What I'm doing, the prob what I'm doing is trying to help the guide since their life, I worked very well with a woman who is a career counselor. [The] last 20 clients she had were attorneys.
Kim:
Oh, wow.
John:
Yes. And so it was very common for the attorney, to be a justice-themed person looking for fairness. And if they're in a firm that in their mind seems to be corrupt. They….get anxious. They…don't want to associate with them any longer. And so what do we do? Well, they, once they see it, then they know exactly what to do. They, they quit. They go to another department, they have another level of career, whatever it might be. And they don't give up law, but they understand what really did happen a lot. A lot of times I go to a non-profit because they're not as pushy.
Kim:
Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So—these are the types of episodes we're going to have coming up. So thank you, John.
You guys, if you like what you hear, please share with your friends and subscribe.
John:
Very good.
Kim:
Fantastic. See you next time.
John:
All right. Thank you.