Relationship Types with Melissa Meredith Wells

With a background in assessments, Melissa Wells was intrigued when she met John Voris from Authentic Systems and learned about Life Themes and the 4 Archetypes. 

Kim, Melissa, and John discuss how to improve a relationship by understanding each Life Theme's unique values, allowing you to communicate with others and navigate potential conflicts. 

From finding commonality to providing adequate space for disagreements, they talk about which Life Themes are likely to disagree and have different styles of conflict management, which parties each Theme would attend, and how to channel your Life Theme for personal and professional success. 

With these insights, it's clear that understanding Life Themes can help individuals understand themselves and others in order to create better relationships. 

For more information go to johnvoris.com

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Transcript

Kim (00:28):

Hi. So, we are so excited because we are starting another episode of Authentic Living and I'm your co-host Kim Eley, and I am here with John Voris. 

John: Hello. 

Kim: And John, we have an amazing special guest today and it is Melissa Wells and oh my goodness, you guys have been working together for about 10 years. Melissa comes to us…she also has a background in the assessment business. So we're super curious to talk about that and also talk about Authentic Systems and how it relates to relationships. So to kick us off, Melissa, how did y'all meet?

Melissa (01:12):

Well, I went to a Women in Business conference in Santa Cruz and I met this coach who…Linda Hardenstein, who does, she does a lot of coaching for career counseling, for lawyers, mostly professionals. And she found out that I was in the assessment business. 

I'm a founder, a co-founder of Five Dynamics, which is a learning style employee development tool that's being used by Fortune 100 companies throughout the world. That's—and I started that with my father years ago and we sold the business, but I'm still very much interested in human psychology and what makes people tick and happy and mostly about relationships. So my role in Five Dynamics was to create relationship files and dyads. I created a grid for that and got people to understand how, how they would get along in teams of two. Excellent. So when Linda found out about my background, she was like, “Oh, you have to meet the guy that I work with because he assesses my clients.”

Melissa (02:15):

And I thought, okay, I will. And so I went to his office in Carmel and it had, you know, 800,000 books and <laugh> I think maybe now he has 8,000 and 20,000. I don’t know. He [had] a lot of books and I was very impressed by his work. It was so very simple and beautiful and it goes very deep. 

The Life themes is such a wonderful tool to get people to understand humanity. And it is simple. Anybody can understand which of the life themes is more prominent in their life. And I found the greatest way to find out really who you are is to find out who you like to be with.

Kim (02:58):

Ooh. Awesome. So, real quick for potential new listeners, give us a quick description of the four Life themes, John.

John (03:07):

The four Life themes are love, justice, wisdom and power. And you identify love in the terms of caring. The wisdom is identified by being curious. Justice is about relationships and power is about being in action.

Kim (03:27):

Fantastic. Awesome.

John (03:28):

[All of us] have all four but one dominates.

Kim (03:30):

There we go. Cool. Cool, cool. Great recap. 

So to take it back to you, Melissa, so were you introduced to John by Linda?

Melissa (03:38):

Yes. So when I met him, I was on the way out after the business had been handed over and I was kind of reinventing myself and not sure which direction to go in. And I was very, very impressed and intrigued by his work. So I started to work with him and eventually helped him with the book that you ended up finishing and writing. 

And the second book too, I put together from all of the, just the reams of stuff that John writes about. So I'm able to really organize his stuff and put it together in a coherent way. And I'm very excited by doing that. Something that I really love to do is work with intellectual property. 

But the real value of what he does comes when I actually explain it to people when I'll say, “Oh, you know, you're having an issue with that person cause it sounds like they are a xyz and you are a C. And so this is how the four of these archetypes work with one another.”

Melissa (04:41):

And when I explain it, within five minutes, the lights are going off with people. They're getting it, they're going, “Oh my gosh, no wonder my sister is like that. Or, no wonder my husband and I are da, da da.” 

So it's very, very, very powerful with relationships, I think. And, you know, learning about your purpose and you know, learning where your actual—I like the four Life themes because it tells you what your niche is, like, what part of the road you should really be in. And, cause I'll find myself trying to move into another lane and I go, I don't belong in that lane, <laugh>, I'm in this—

Kim (05:16):

Wrong lane.

Melissa (05:17):

—yeah. I'm in the wrong lane. And it always, it always feels like that. So, yeah. So anyhow, I love it when he goes on and on about how much he loves Kant <laugh>. I never met anybody who love Kant as much as this.

Kim (05:31):

Very cool! 

Question for you, John. How soon after you and Melissa met did you give her the Authentic Systems assessment to take here she is an assessment expert?

John (05:43):

Well, it was very close to when I first met her because she—I told her what I was up to. She was very intrigued and I sat down and I did do an assessment and she enjoyed it and was intrigued by it, as she said. And then we went off to the next step. She also helped me generate a site on the internet and did some writing. And we've been back and forth ever since we started 10 years ago.

Kim (06:11):

Excellent. Excellent. 

And Melissa, please reveal to us what is your life theme?

Melissa (06:16):

So, I'm a Justice.

Kim (06:19):

Aha.

Melissa (06:19):

Yes. I'm a Justice, I know. In the wisdom side of justice. So I'm, I'm not the most loving Justice person you'd want <laugh>. 

Kim: You're too funny. 

Melissa: I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Kim (06:34):

So, so if I could jump in and, and say, and you've alluded to this, but the Justice life theme is a combination of Wisdom and Love. And so when you're saying that you're high on the wisdom, lower on the love, that doesn't mean that you don't love people because we know you do, but that, that the wisdom is stronger. Is that correct?

Melissa (06:55):

Yeah, it's more dominant. Yeah.

Kim (06:57):

Gotcha. Awesome.

Melissa (06:58):

Yeah. Yeah. So,

John (06:59):

And I also [would] like to interject here. You might find that there's many people in this series that may be Justice and Wisdom. There's a reason for that because it's the Wisdom side that brings people to this information that they're seeking for. 

Kim (07:18):

Okay.

Melissa (07:19):

Yeah. That is so great. So it's not like the model is always finding Justice. No. It's just that they're being attracted by the information.

Kim (07:27):

Fantastic.

Melissa (07:28):

Yeah. As, as a justice person, I, what I found interesting is, you know, I'm not interested in law, although I do have a lot of friends who are attorneys and in the business of, you know, civic duty and law. 

But what I found interesting—because I'm actually a fine artist that is my background and a musician. And so when John was explaining that justice really is about finding symmetry and balance, well that totally works with doing art projects or even engineering because I'm a techie too. 

But when you're painting or doing music, you're finding like the perfect balance to “oh, now it works or now it doesn't work,” this kind of thing. And that to me is my balancing act. 

But the other piece of justice that I also find interesting that he, that's not really, it doesn't make sense in a way right away, is that justice people are really into self-improvement movement. Hmm. <affirmative>. So all the personal growth people, that sort of genre of folk is also a justice type person because it, it's interested in the wisdom and the psychology of people, but because it has a love in it, it also wants to take care of humanity. So it's like, kind of like, I see problems with humanity and I wanna apply some wisdom to make everybody better. And so you see that a lot too. So I thought that, you know, then it was like, oh yeah, I guess I'm justice, there's no getting around it. Yeah. <laugh>

Kim (08:50):

Gotcha. Cause—

Melissa (08:51):

I would love to be power, but it's just not gonna happen. <laugh>.

Kim (08:55):

I love it. That's awesome.

Melissa (08:56):

Yeah. So—

Kim (08:57):

Yeah. I'm curious to know, Melissa, after the assessment, how have you used what you've learned about the life themes and authentic systems in your own personal and professional

Melissa (09:07):

Life? Okay. That's a great question. Well, it's, again, like I said, it helps me stay in my lane. You know, because I am such a curious person and I like to try on different hats. I'll find myself getting kind of sucked into the world of love. And then I'll, I'll be like, “Yeah, you know, wait, I'll wake up, wake up. Okay, let's get stop being so emotional here and let's put on your, you know, Athena wisdom cap and get clear and have some clear thinking about it.” 

And the other curious thing about it came from the deeper reading, which is the authentic reading where he talks about your authentic self and your synthetic self and the rejuvenator, those three parts of who we are that make up who we are. And so what he told me, it was so simple, but it solved all of my problems. So there's one my authentic, which is the timeless part of who my—who I am, which you might call my soul spiritual part is very spiritual and it's holographic. So I am this like, “I really do think in a holographic way, and Melissa does too.” So the two of us can go bing, bing binging,

Kim (10:16): 
<laugh>.

Melissa (10:17):

But mine is much more connected to the spiritual world. And I really am like, I really, “he says, oh, you're just, you're like right here in heaven. Ooh, you're so close. Cause I feel like that like, oh man, I can get so out there, I can get way out there in a very beautiful way.” 

But my synthetic is highly efficient. It is like, uh, it's a slice and dice machine and I always wondered how I could be. So really, I mean, so managing time and, you know, bossing people around and getting stuff going and getting stuff done. And at the same time have this like bizarre experience inside of my head and, and abstractly how I am in the world is pretty out there. But I'm able to really just go into this other mode where it's just high efficiency kilter, birds with one stone, let's get it done. And thank goodness, because I'm able to take really high abstract concepts and, and whittle them down into a very simple form and then make something from it. 

So to see that as, as a part of who I am was to be recognized as usually what happens when he does do readings. I've seen this with people to really be recognized for their incredibly unique formula of who they are as a person. It's amazing. It's amazing to, to have really been, uh, read by him was, was just eye opening.

Kim (11:42):

Oh, that's fantastic.

Melissa (11:43):

Yeah. Yeah.

Kim (11:44):

And I'm curious to know, John, what did Melissa add to, uh, authentic systems once y'all first started collaborating?

John (11:54):

What I enjoy is her unique perspective and, and, and also the depth that we went because some people want to approach it from a cursory position and [say] let's solve this one problem. But Melissa really wanted to get deeper and deeper and deeper. 

And so what happened is that helped me research deeper and deeper and deeper as well. And so that was a great benefit. The other is, is that what I wanted to know is just not people want to want, but the question is why do they want to want and what is motivating that change events? And so this is where I can get to, but she was a very willing participant and so we both really got deeper than I usually do.

Kim (12:41):

Oh, excellent. Fantastic. And John, what is your life theme?

John (12:46):

Wisdom.

Kim (12:46):

Wisdom. So no wonder, I think that was probably an excellent balance. I was about to say symbiosis, I don't think I'm using that word correctly. <laugh> Collaboration.

John (12:59):

Right. But so I want to make a point. Yes. What justice people can do that I cannot—

Kim (13:06):

Mm-hmm.

John (13:06):

—is balance and seeing both sides. Okay. I'm not geared that way. 

What happens with a love person or a wisdom person is it's wisdom. I want to know it's a straight line. I care for the love people. It's a straight line—and power is too a straight line. Justice is the only one that has that balance back and forth. They're the ones. And so that's why they make great counselors and coaches.

Kim (13:36):

Ah, excellent.

John (13:37):

Oh yes. Excellent. And so anyway, so I just want to make that point is that I can learn to find balance, but I have to be trained and I would never be good at it. 

But now I don't want to be because it's not something I need to fix. What you do is you really absorb who you are in fact. And you accept that and realize that that's your contribution to society.

Kim (14:06):

Ooh, I love that. I think that's a good segue to Melissa. We were going to talk a bit about relationships between the life themes. So that might be a good place to, to talk a little bit about that.

Melissa (14:18):

Okay. I love it. I think when we start talking about relationships and who the life theme work is, that for me the real value comes from the relationship side and understanding which groups are bonding together. I completely recognized the cliques that are formed between Love and Justice. That's like one clique. Those people tend to hang a lot, a lot. And families tend to kind of converge like that. And then they have friends that tend to be the same. 

So you're seeing these kind of cliquey Love [and] Justice and the same with Wisdom and Power. Those people, I mean, I, I can't tell you like how many times I've been to a party. I've been like, and especially in Palo Alto, this is a power party if I have ever been to one <laugh> and then I can, you know, I love Justice. You can totally tell there's a whole different field. But these people tend to group up together and they tend to successfully. 

Kim (15:20):

Gotcha. So describe what's different in a Wisdom/Power party that, that you wouldn't find in a Love/Justice party.

Melissa (15:29):

Well, not many people are dancing on the tables. <laugh>, you see a lot of that. Everyone's pretty well behaved <laugh> not so much that you love justice. Barbecues, no <laugh>.

Kim (15:44):

Oh my gosh. So what's the dynamic that works well with the Wisdom and Power together?

Melissa (15:49):

Well this is, do you wanna talk about that John or do you want me to go?

John (15:52):

Well the only thing I would say is that power finds their power through knowledge.

Melissa (15:59):

Hmm. And so the Wisdom people actually support the Power people. The other issue is the Wisdom. People are not focused on power. 

There was a CEO in Silicon Valley talking about the techies and how they knew the insides of all the patents that they had. And he said, “I never worry about anything being stolen because they're not after the power. They want to express their wisdom. They want to learn.” And so that's the difference. So Wisdom and Power work very well together because power is wisdom. People let power be powerful and the powerful let wisdom people teach them.

Kim (16:37):

Ooh, I love that. Awesome. So tell you what, we're going to take a short break, but when we come back I'd like to learn more about those dancing on the table parties because that sounds fantastic. And then we can also talk about how some of the life themes maybe don't get along quite as well. So we will be right back.

**Break**

Kim (18:08):

Thank you so much for joining us again and we've been having the most wonderful discussion with Melissa Wells. Melissa—true confession. You are a Justice life theme. Would we ever catch you at a Love/Justice party dancing on a table?

Melissa (18:25):

Yes. And I would be dragging a lot of Love people with me <laugh>. They'd be the first ones to come up with me <laugh>.

Kim (18:35):

Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. Uh, so tell us a little bit, I'm curious about how the Authentic Systems life themes might play in a family dynamic.

Melissa (18:47):

Well yeah, luckily I've had a lot of experience for that because I have quite a few half step, lots of remarriages in my family. And so my parents—my father was wisdom and my mother was love. And so they begat me, Justice!

Kim (19:05):

<laugh>.

Melissa (19:06):

It really, it really was a combination. Wisdom and love, but wisdom and love. You know, not that's pretty hard. That's a hard relationship. I can't speak to it but I know John has had some experience with love people.

Kim (19:19):

Yeah. John, can you give us some insights on that?

John (19:23):

Yeah. It depends on the topic you're engaged with, but mostly, especially like in marriages, Love and Wisdom don't get along very well. The reason why is because the Love person never knows enough and the Wisdom person is not empathetic, is not enough.

Kim (19:39):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Gotcha.

John (19:40):

So that's usually what—and then of course when they look at life itself, the Love person will be more interested in caring for people and the Wisdom person might be someone who wants to project the future and see certain steps need to be made now for the future. But the Love person says, “Wait a minute, there's gonna be a lot of sacrifice. I don't think we need to do this or that.” And so that usually is a problem. And then that's really does…now when you have a project that that's shared, they can get along.

Kim (20:09):

Gotcha. That's—

John (20:10):

Different but not in an intimate relationship.

Kim (20:13):

Gotcha. So listen, Wisdom…yeah—

Melissa (20:15):

Well, Wisdom people, both Power and Wisdom, what they have in common is they can really depersonalize situations. They don't take things as personal. 

And that however means that they expect you to not take things so personally and just, “These are the facts, this is what needs to be done. Just gimme the facts,” or with Wisdom people, “Please don't color this information up too much. I just want the spreadsheet. Don't highlight with your colors. I need just the information.” And there's Love people putting stickers all over it and Justice people just not giving it to you at all. Cause it's not perfect and you know, it can drive Wisdom and Power people crazy <laugh>. 

But that's what I totally see. That's the game. Yeah. So my Wisdom father remarried a Power woman and they got along great and I, I was very close to both of them and they both had children who were both Power kids. So my half-siblings are Power on that side. 

Now what happened was my folks had a lot of friends who were Power and Wisdom people. All of 'em. Like they, you would go to any event and I would be like, “Oh my God, there isn't a single, I'm the only justice person here. Like I'm the, I'm it, I'm it <laugh>.”

Melissa (21:30):

So I find it really curious. So when I realized that I really saw John's work live like with the groupings and I always thought that Love and Justice people got along because of my past experience of being an artist. And I would say most artists and musicians tend to veer on the Love/Justice side. You'll find some Wisdom people in there who would be more techie and they're the ones who are like, you know, agonizing over what string to use on their guitar and you know, “This is the best thing for this,” and they're, they're building their own guitars and that kind of stuff. But for the most part when you're talking, you know, that kind of creative spontaneity, you're going to get a lot of Love/Justice people. So I'm used to those groups of people, the dancing on the speaker types and the tables and this kind of thing.

Melissa (22:13):

And I used to think they flock together because of the common interest, but in fact I think they're flocking together because Love and Justice people really merge. And the, I love it when—I have a lot of friends who are Love, right. And some of them drive me crazy cause they just talk about their feelings all the time. <laugh>, that's too funny. And you know it's, but then you're like, “Okay, can you just table this now? Cause like I know how angry you are at [me] for saying that.”

John said, and it was so beautiful the way he said it. He said, “You know, Mel, you need the love, you need those Love people in your life.” And I do, I, if I don't have a love person around, I feel very cold and lonely and I have some Justice friends, but there's nothing like a Love friend.

Melissa (23:04):

They just bring, they just open my heart. I feel free with them. I feel at ease. I feel unjudged at all. I actually feel smart because they're always asking me, “You know, what do you think?” Like no one asks me that. Cause I love people. <laugh>. <laugh>, “What do you think? Well, oh really? Wow. I'm flattered.” 

Yeah. So, oh my gosh. And then Love people benefit from Justice people because they get the wisdom without the judgment. Right? So a Love person can ask any sort of, you know, insane question that they want <laugh> and a Justice person will try to answer it best they can without saying, “You know, that question's a little interesting.” You know, so yeah. But John's saying that, “Mel, you need the love.” I was like, “Gosh, I really do. I really do.”

Kim (23:51):

Oh, that's great. Yeah. So John, share a little bit with us about that. What is it about the Justice people who need the Love people? 

John (23:59):

Well, with Justice then they have two aspects to themselves. Let's say Mel is 70 to 80% wisdom, 30 to 20% love. I'm just throwing this out as an arbitrary number. So you see that there is an imbalance because we can't, if it was balanced 50-50, she—some, some Justice people go through paralysis, they can never make a decision—

Kim (24:24):

Oh!

Melissa (24:24):

—they really have a hard time. And they go to counseling to try to find out what is their problem. And the problem that they're gauged with is seeing both sides. Now there's a way to get around that, but they need to be assessed to do that. 

So if you're at 70 to 30%, then this 30% needs to be built up some way. And so it's done by being with Love people. So in being with Love people, she actually can find some balance in that period of time.

Kim (24:52):

Ah, that's awesome.

John (24:53):

And also I wanted to say that what she's talking about and what we're all here talking about is each one Love/Justice. Woman power represents a world view. So where she's describing the worldview and engaged with predictive behavior, [it is] very important. So she's saying, “When I'm with Love people, this is what happens. When I'm with Justice people, this is what happens. Well this system is designed to have a predictive quality to it with regards to archetypes. So I don't know what anybody's going to do in the next five minutes, but I will know why they're doing it.”

Kim (25:32):

Awesome. What is one of the ways that people can pick up and recognize, “Oh my gosh, I'm talking with a Justice theme,” or, “I'm talking with a Power life theme.”

John (25:42):

Okay, let's ask Mel.

Kim (25:43):

Oh, okay.

John (25:44):

Yeah.

Melissa (25:46):

I actually think the best way to approach that is to…when you're with someone and you think that they're a Power person, what is your reaction? That kind of thing. 

So if you're a Love person and you think about people who are the Power people in your life—I mean, you could have a sister or an aunt or boss or someone you know, a peer, neighbor, best friend or even a husband/wife. But if you're a Love person and you're in the vicinity of a Power person, you're going to start feeling like you're getting bullied a bit and you're getting boss around. You're not like that one bit because there's a part of you that feels like you're not being recognized for your feelings and you're just like constantly being told what to do in a way. Right? 

Kim: Definitely. 

John (26:43):

And so then you know that you're a Love person because you're feeling a little victimized. There's going to be this like feeling of like, “Oh, I'm like—this person just is totally gonna run, run me over.” Right. <laugh>. Now if I'm a Justice person with a Power person, I'm very anti-authority. 

So Justice people, what they lack most is power. And what they want is power. So when I'm with Power people previously or if I'm unconscious about it, I start to get really anti-authority and I start to say, “Uh, no. You know, and just, you know, like, uh, I don't think so.” 

But now knowing that Power people are incredibly valuable and I actually do love the Power people in my life and they have been incredibly helpful because a lot of people, Power people are about empowerment, about empowering people and helping other people. But I will know first right off when I'm with a—I’m a Justice with a Power, it's like, “Oh, okay, I'm gonna feel like no.” And the answer is “No.”

Kim (27:41):

“No!” <laugh>

Melissa (27:42):

Right. That makes sense, John.

John (27:44):

Oh yes, absolutely. And [a]very good point is the idea is that once you become aware of these aspects of humanity, you can have control over how you feel about them. Whereas people who are not assessed, they are in reaction to something they don't understand. That's just how I just feel this way. I don't know why. But now you have control over it rather than having it control over you.

Melissa (28:08):

Right.

Kim (28:09):

Absolutely. I'll speak from experience having also been assessed and I am a love person. Woo hoo! 

So I find frequently in my business as a, as a small business or as an entrepreneur, when I talk with people, I will observe their language and I can usually react and figure out which life theme they are. 

Melissa, I was going to ask you, I'm guessing that you probably have a similar reaction when you meet people for the first time. Do you have a different way of reacting to people based on what life theme they are?

Melissa (28:42):

Yeah, I think, well again, it's—my heart is much more open to people now and what they represent and the diversity of their archetypes. I think it's “Everybody is welcome.” And when I feel like a wisdom is giving me too many directions, like I'm trying to get home and they're giving me these directions that are just at infinitum, “Oh no, no, don't use your GPS <laugh>, listen to me, there's a blue house. Okay, you're gonna go straight blue house to left and in front of the house is a, is a tree with a swing. And I think the swing was put up by the owner about 12 years ago.” <laugh>. 

Right. They go really right. You know, and then I'll be okay, but instead of being impatient, it's like, “This Wisdom person needs to go through the process of distilling the information in order to,” and I just have to be there and go, “Wow, this is amazing to be with this, to be with this person who has all this data and who just wants to do this.” 

And the same thing with a Power person. It's like, “Okay, you go girl, you just, you take that and you go, if I can help you out, let me know.” So yeah, I do react and I try to be supportive of their archetype.

Kim (29:48):

You know, I love that. I think that’s important. I think that's powerful that it makes you more cognizant but also more open to other people. 

So John, I'll, I'll pose this to you. Do you find that happens frequently once people are assessed and once they understand life themes?

John (30:06):

Yes. The first thing that happens is self-acceptance. They realize there's nothing to fix, only something to be aware of. And the other—[the] second is they realize that some people around them are imposing standards in areas that they can't possibly meet because they're different people. So if someone wants me to be highly technical and with regards to computers, it's not happening <laugh>, it's not happening. 

And so now I could do two things. I could say, “Okay, I'm a wisdom person and a theoretical wisdom person, so I don't need to be there.” On the other hand, what a lot of people do is they beat themselves up and [say] “I'm gonna go to a course on computers.” I'm learn everything I can about computers and I'm going to be miserable doing it. And when I get out, I will not be as good as anybody that really is detailed, detail oriented, systematic oriented. So this is a way to say, this is my contribution here. And no, I'm not going to be highly technical. I'm not going to be engaged in in computers. And, and I'm fine with that. That's the point. Self-acceptance. And then they turn that around and their acceptance of other people.

Kim (31:17):

Oh, love that. 

Melissa, what have you seen or experienced in acceptance of other people? You touched on it a little bit. Do you have any specific examples that have happened in your life where you were like, “Aha, I understand why this person is like this!”

Melissa (31:29):

Yeah. All over the place. I mean, everybody, everybody. I… couldn't even, and I think too, I've just been doing this for so long that I can't even remember a time when I didn't know this <laugh> because everybody that I've known in my past, I've assessed in my head. I’ve gone, “Yeah, oh yeah, that's, that's a Love person.” And now I understand why that happened and this happened and, and this and all of it.

Kim (31:53):

Oh, that's fantastic.

Melissa (31:54):

Yeah.

John (31:55):

So Kim, share your experience with a Love client. I mean a Power client you had.

Kim (32:02):

Absolutely. So yes, as a Love person, I had a Power client, [a] potential client. And, and we got on the phone together and I was like, “Good Lord have mercy. This woman is pushy.” I was like, “I don't understand.” She kept name dropping. She was all about, “Well you know it” because I am a publisher. It's like, “Well, well you know, what kind of attention will I receive because of this book” and things like that. And I was like, “What the devil lady, you know what, why are, why are you doing this?” 

Anyway, what I understood afterwards, I was like, “Oh, I get it now, I get it where she's coming from.” You know, I had another conversation with her because she was a potential client at the time and I was able to speak to her more in her language and understand, and like you were talking about, both of y'all were talking about, it's that self-acceptance but also the self-awareness that, “Oh, she's not trying to bully me, she's not trying to pressure me. This is just who she is.” 

And I realized she was very insecure. She as a Power person really wanted people to love her. But she was very insecure about it. And it changed my whole viewpoint. Instead of being like, “Get away,” I was like, “Oh, okay, okay, let, let's, let's work on this together.” So turned out to be a great relationship, but I had to speak her language <laugh>.

John (33:19):

Yeah, no, it totally helps. And the underpinning of all of this is love. So love is the universal truth and love is the force that drives all of these themes. You know, so we can say love is a quadrant, but there's also just the love that permeates the entire thing and drives all of us to behave and to be the way we are. Cause we just love, I just love justice. I love the balancing. I love it. I could do it all day. I don't wanna stop, you know, <laugh>

Kim (33:55):

Fantastic. Yeah. Oh my goodness, this has been such an amazing discussion and I've gotten so much out of this. Melissa, thank you so much for being our guest.

Melissa (34:07):

Absolutely, yes, thank you.

Kim (34:09):

Absolutely. And we're going to have show notes, so we'll include your information in the show notes. And John, if somebody would like to reach out and have an assessment or learn more about authentic systems, how do they get in touch with you?

John (34:24):

Email me at john@authenticsystems.com.

Kim (34:30):

Fantastic. And I know now when I have a party that Melissa, I'm gonna pull you on the table with me.

Melissa (34:40):

I'm already there. I'm already there with Kim!

Kim (34:42):

<laugh>. Fantastic. Excellent. Well, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for listening and please tune in next time and if you have a question, please share it with us. We would love to hear it. So thank you.

Melissa (34:56):

Thank you for having me. It's been fun.