How Symbols Run Our Lives

If you think symbols are just marks on a page or representations of objects or concepts, think again! 

In this episode of Authentic Systems, John and Kim discuss why symbols matter and explore the ways in which symbols control our lives, from how they impact the way we think to how we express ourselves. 

Understanding symbols will help you understand what motivates you, why you value the things you do, and more. 

Dig deeper with us with this lively discussion to learn about this foundation of Authentic Systems and ultimately unlock your understanding of who you really are.

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Transcript

Kim Eley (00:29):

Hi. So, welcome to Authentic Living, and you're here with John Voris and Kim Eley. Hello!

John Voris (00:37):

Hello. Nice to be here.

Kim Eley (00:39):

Yes. Always glad to be with you. So, I'm excited about today's topic. So today we are talking about symbols.

John Voris (00:48):

Absolutely. The symbols is everywhere, and it really does run our life. It has to do with how we think, how we feel emotions, our motivations are really about symbols, symbolic meaning. So I have a little, little test for you.

Kim Eley (01:06):

Okay. What you got, John?

John Voris (01:08):

Okay. Think back time in the past that was fun. You can remember, could be Christmas, it could be your birthday, could be anything. What event might that be?

Kim Eley (01:19):

Oh, what event? Yeah—

John Voris (01:21):

Describe that.

Kim Eley (01:23):

Let's see if I've chosen Christmas. So I might have a Christmas tree in the house with decorations.

John Voris (01:32):

Okay. Now I want you to vision yourself Christmas morning and look at yourself. Okay. And describe yourself. What are you wearing? How's your hair, et cetera?

Kim Eley (01:45):

<Laugh> Christmas morning, I am in my festive pajamas, so if you can picture it, they've got alternating candy canes and Christmas trees, and they are red and green. And my hair is generally a mess because I've been up late trying to hide Christmas presents for my family. <Laugh>.

John Voris (02:06):

Very good. Very good. So now let's just say that those, what you just described are visual objects, right? 

Kim Eley (02:17):

Okay.

John Voris (02:17):

Now, while you have yourself in your mind—

John Voris (02:20):

—I want you to turn around and and see if you could describe who's doing the watching.

Kim Eley (02:26):

Ooh. Who is doing the watching? Gosh, you know, it would be me, right? I would be the one watching myself.

John Voris (02:37):

Oh yeah. It would be you, but, but you—just perfect. Because when you turn it around, yes, it's you, but you can't describe it. That's the point.

Kim Eley (02:46):

Ah, gotcha.

John Voris (02:48):

The you that is actually doing the watching. I mean, think re-envisioning your time in the past can't be described as not in language. And yet, this is how we create our reality. Our joys, happiness relationships all comes from he or she who is doing the watching.

Kim Eley (03:10):

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (03:12):

So I'm separating the physical world that we see and the invisible worlds of the abstract mind.

Kim Eley (03:23):

Oh, okay.

John Voris (03:25):

Okay. We have a separation.

Kim Eley (03:27):

Gotcha.

John Voris (03:27):

And so we have that separation and we connect them with our emotions and feelings. And it is, that's genetic. Actually, we're not going to go there, but this is why when we see the, an ocean, we really enjoy it. We, we have feelings. Or when you see a relative or a wife or a husband for after a long time, and you see them coming up the driveway, you know, we have feelings and objects under our brain, you might say, is designed to connect to each other. And, but for the mental side of it, we take objects and we give them meaning.

Kim Eley (04:03):

Gotcha. Okay.

John Voris (04:05):

So who we are are the people who are doing the watching that cannot be, cannot be captured in language directly. We have to do it indirectly. And that's what a symbol. That's how we use symbols.

Kim Eley (04:17):

Okay. Gotcha.

John Voris (04:19):

But in America, we're very restricted on what a symbol is. 

So for example, give me a list of symbols.

Kim Eley (04:26):

Sure. Gosh, I immediately think of traffic. So I'm thinking of a red octagonal sign, which is a symbol for stop <laugh>, right?

John Voris (04:38):

Mm-Hmm. 

Kim Eley (04:39):

<Laugh>. Let's see what might be another symbol. Gosh, if I see a picture of a silhouette of a man and woman standing together in an arrow, it represents this way to the restroom.

John Voris (04:53):

Very good. So the point is, is that you're demonstrating perfectly is what an American, how American views, symbols. And the way we're trained on symbols is they are deliberate. They're created to symbolize something else. Like a logo of, of a team football team, baseball team, basketball team. 

When you look at products, they have their logo on the side of the box. You know, this is how we're trained, but that is very minor part of what a symbol actually is and how it functions in our daily lives, for example.

Kim Eley (05:30):

Oh, wow. Okay.

John Voris (05:32):

Okay. Where you're sitting, everything around you is a symbol. Hmm. Now I look at that wall behind you. Right. So that wall has a specific design.

Kim Eley (05:43):

Right.

John Voris (05:44):

And it doesn't symbolize a wall you might find in a home.

Kim Eley (05:50):

Mm. True.

John Voris (05:51):

Or you might find in a warehouse.

Kim Eley (05:54):

Mm-Hmm. 

John Voris (05:55):

Or in a church, it wouldn't be traditional. But that has a function, you see?

Kim Eley (06:01):

Gotcha. And just to describe to any of our audio listeners, I'm sitting in a podcast booth and I'm in a wooden, it's a wooden wall. And actually, if I squish my fingers between the slats of the wooden wall, there's some soundproofing material. And you're absolutely right. I wouldn't put that in my house. But for this podcast booth, it's—

John Voris (06:22):

Perfect, right? Yeah. For if you want. We know the difference between seeing a house and a church—

Kim Eley (06:30):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (06:30):

—the difference between a church and a cabin, a cabin and a library.

Kim Eley (06:38):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (06:40):

These are when we, these are just objects. They're physical objects, but what they trigger is the meaning of them. And we live in meaning not the object. The object is a catalyst that generates meaning for us.

Kim Eley (06:56):

Gotcha. Okay. So instead of a symbol only being a direct representation of something, like for instance, the stop sign or the restroom, everything around us in essence is a symbol. Every object represents some sort of meaning to us. Is that correct?

John Voris (07:17):

Right. So a symbol is something that infers meaning beyond itself.

Kim Eley (07:22):

Okay.

John Voris (07:23):

So when you think about a house, think about it's just a stucco and wood and electric wires and flooring and, and tile and plumbing. But if you took all of that and put it in the pile in the middle of a football field, what would you have? You wouldn't have, you wouldn't have a house, would you?

Kim Eley (07:44):

You would have a yard sale. Yeah.

John Voris (07:46):

There you got it. Exactly.

Kim Eley (07:47):

<Laugh>

John Voris (07:49):

So you see what's happening is when you see a place, thing in a structure that is manmade for a purpose, a function, and now symbolizes the house.

Kim Eley (08:03):

Gotcha. Okay.

John Voris (08:05):

So that everything that a human makes—

Kim Eley (08:09):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (08:09):

—and doesn't make even nature. 

Of course, nature symbolizes that is, it extends a meaning to us. And that's where we live. We live in the meaning that objects or symbols generate.

Kim Eley (08:27):

Gotcha. So what might be the importance or significance of the fact that everywhere we are has some sort of meaning to us? Like for instance, I'm in a podcast room. What, how would that be different than if I was in a cabin? <Laugh>.

John Voris (08:46):

Okay, so you're in a podcast room, okay? So why are you there?

Kim Eley (08:51):

Specifically to make a podcast?

John Voris (08:54):

Making podcasts is part of who you are.

Kim Eley (08:58):

Hmm. Okay.

John Voris (09:00):

Being in a podcast room is something that conforms to your identity.

Kim Eley (09:06):

Gotcha.

John Voris (09:08):

Gotcha. So long ago I said to myself, “if the objects people like having around them represents who they are, then why can't I read the objects and find who they are?”

Kim Eley (09:23):

Hmm.

John Voris (09:24):

And that's what I actually did for 20 years.

Kim Eley (09:27):

Gotcha. 

John Voris (09:28):

I was in sales. 

Kim Eley (09:30):

You were in sales. I'm thinking there's probably some pretty, and tell me if I'm wrong, but some pretty obvious objects that would make somebody associate with meaning. Like if somebody has, I'm going to say a deer head mounted on their wall, you can maybe assume that they're a hunter. Is that on the right track?

John Voris (09:48):

All yes. Yes. Except, except for, I do want to go a little further. So when it comes to the symbols, everything around you right now is an object with a meaning. That means the floor is a symbol. The walls are symbols, the windows are symbols, your pencils are symbols, your pens, microphone is a symbol. Everything around you symbolizes meanings that have been placed together into a function of meaning. A single function of meaning called a podcast room.

Kim Eley (10:22):

Gotcha. So all of the elements added up together. 

Kind of going back to your example about if you have a house and you have the floor and the furniture and the light fixtures and everything where we believe they should be, it's a house. But if you took all those separate elements and put them somewhere else, it would no longer have the same meaning. I guess similarly, if we were to tear the walls off of the podcast room and take all the microphone and all the table and equipment and put it elsewhere, all of a sudden it loses its context.

John Voris (10:57):

Exactly. So you're not there because you enjoy the chair you're sitting in.

Kim Eley (11:03):

Right. <laugh>

John Voris (11:04):

You're not there because you like the color of the walls, you're not there because of the table. You're not there because of the computer sitting in front of you. You're not there for everything that's physical. 

You're there because of the meaning you can place on these objects and how the meaning can be inferred. So when it comes to the objects, the objects are really here to ignite meaning in us. And that's where we live in the world of meaning. That's why when you look at yourself in the past, you can see yourself physically, but if you turn back, you can't see anything because who you are is abstract meaning.

Kim Eley (11:46):

Okay. Maybe break it in down into an example.

John Voris (11:50):

Okay. So what we do, what we want getting to desires and want. We don't want the thing

Kim Eley (11:58):

Like, I don't want this microphone.

John Voris (12:01):

Exactly. It's not about the microphone.

Kim Eley (12:03):

It's what the microphone can do for me.

John Voris (12:06):

Yes.

Kim Eley (12:06):

And I guess, let me ask, if I dig deeper into that, tell me if I'm on the right track. 

I'm in a podcast room, I'm using microphone, I'm using audio equipment, but I'm not using it because I'm like a microphone enthusiast. I'm using it because of a deeper meaning. And if I dig into that and go, “why are John and Kim recording a podcast? Why are we using this?” It's because both of us have a message that we need to share.

John Voris (12:38):

Right. I can use the microphone alone. Why do you have a microphone there?

Kim Eley (12:43):

I have a microphone here so that you can hear me and we can communicate and that we can have a dialogue and then also to record what we're talking about so we can share it with others.

John Voris (12:56):

So what?

Kim Eley (12:57):

So the reason for that is because we have something important, a message to share that we feel could be potentially helpful to other people.

John Voris (13:06):

So?

Kim Eley (13:07):

So I care about that because I want people to understand authentic living because I feel like they could have a better life as a result.

John Voris (13:16):

So what?

Kim Eley (13:18):

I don’t know, it's just the right thing to do. <Laugh>

John Voris (13:21):

Ok. So you see the—perfect, it's perfect. You got to the point where you could not use language.

Kim Eley (13:29):

Ah!

John Voris (13:31):

Everyone does. It doesn't matter who they are. When I take them through that process, you finally end up with, “gee, I really don't know.” And that's the answer. Because you can't say it, it's who you are inside. It's the abstract meaning that you are.

Kim Eley (13:48):

Okay. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. 

So now can I turn the tables on you? Okay. So John, I know you're a book enthusiast.

John Voris (13:57):

That's true. 

Kim Eley (13:59):

So John, why do you have books in your room?

John Voris (14:02):

Because I'm always doing research.

Kim Eley (14:05):

And why is that?

John Voris (14:07):

Because I—there's great deal to know and there's always something else to know that I don't know.

Kim Eley (14:11):

So why is that important?

John Voris (14:13):

Because I need to know.

Kim Eley (14:15):

Why?

John Voris (14:16):

I don't know.

Kim Eley (14:17):

<Laugh>. <Laugh>.

John Voris (14:20):

I don’t know. Just the way it is.

Kim Eley (14:21):

That's just how it is. We got down to where you have no message or—

John Voris (14:26):

—no more language for it. Cause and so this is, this idea certainly is not new, but I can go back to—David Hume was a Scottish philosopher centuries ago who said that we are driven by our passion, logic and reason are the slaves of our passion.

Kim Eley (14:45):

Hmm.

John Voris (14:45):

That means that you feel what you want, then you find the logic to get it.

Kim Eley (14:52):

Gotcha. Gotcha.

John Voris (14:53):

Really that's how it works.

Kim Eley (14:55):

Was that in play when you were a salesperson talking to people?

John Voris (15:00):

Well, yes. Back at Berkeley, I studied philosophy of language. So there's a great deal. That's how, that's the foundation of authentic systems is—it's European approach to language and psychology that makes the difference. 

Specifically it was existentialism and phenomenology. And those two created the foundation of what I did in sales. And I realized that everyone is living, you're in a lived experience every day of your life and this is who you are. And everything around you has symbolic meaning. And it's there for you and it's essential for you because you want to engage yourself with the world. Right. And this is how you, your expression of who you are is in the world. Yeah. But that's how you create an identity and preserve it. And empower it. Because no one can open up my brain and say, “there's John.”

Kim Eley (15:53):

Right. Right. Yes.

John Voris (15:55):

Happening. It's mental. There's some studies that suggest that's called—phenomenology, where the brain generates the mind. But it's, there's a lot of debate on that. And there's, it's not secure at all. Most philosophers don't believe that. That means that like your brain is doing all the thinking and there's no Kim.

Kim Eley (16:13):

Right, right, right.

John Voris (16:15):

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so the idea is that we live in an invisible world of the mine. And objects are here as symbols, and we use them as catalysts to get what we want and do what we want and satisfied this deeper desire. So that's why we desire to want to want.

Kim Eley (16:37):

I'm loving this discussion. I think this is a good place for us to take a short break and then come back. And what I'd love to know is how we can apply this. So let's do that when we get back.

**Break**

Kim Eley (18:04):

Hi everybody. So we're going to pick back up on this discussion about objects and their meaning. And John, this has been so fascinating, but what I always want to know is how can we apply this in real life?

John Voris (18:18):

Okay. Excellent. Yes. Now I want the audience to know that I used this system in door to door sales for over 20 years.

Kim Eley (18:28):

Wow.

John Voris (18:29):

My conversion rate was over 60%. Meaning from the prospect to a sale is 60%, the normal is five. Five. And so I did it through this method, by reading the symbols around people, I got to see what really motivates them. That's the key. 

So in sales training, they always teach you what to say, when to say it, how to say it. And they have observational testing that they teach. So you have an idea what your customer's looking for, look for their needs, et cetera. And so sales training runs 90% failure. 

Kim Eley (19:14):

Holy smokes.

John Voris (19:15):

And that's, and the reason is because it's, they're teaching based on Western psychology, which is all about physical observation only. And not to the meaning what do you need? Well, they don't need what they're talking about. And they're—that misses the boat. And so the sales rep thinking is thinking they're filling in need of someone. They're not. And so once you see what's going on, then everything shifts for you. 

For example, let's say there's a master carpenter. Master carpenter takes about 20 years, lots of testing. He has to have examples of his work. Let's say he does the fine work. Yachts—inside of a yacht has to be very specific and luxurious. So let me ask you, what would it take to be a master carpenter? Now I'll volunteer one word, which would be patience.

Kim Eley (20:08):

Yeah, that's a good one. 

John Voris (20:10):

What else?

Kim Eley (20:11):

Let's see. Patience. Oh, that's a good one. I would say mathematically inclined.

John Voris (20:18):

Good. Okay. Mathematics. Yes. Attention to detail. 

Kim Eley (20:23):

A good judge of quality, like quality wood.

John Voris (20:27):

Okay. Yeah. This is a luxury yacht. So that would go on very well.

Kim Eley (20:32):

Oh, okay. <Laugh>.

John Voris (20:33):

Okay. So let's say I'm selling a widget, doesn't matter. And I'm going to see this master carpenter for the first time cold call. And I'm going to, and I'm going to walk up to him and tell him who I am. And, but the way I do this is, yeah, I know he's a master carpenter and I know that there's certain ways that you need to be a master carpenter. 

So what I'm going to do is describe whatever widget I have in terms of detail, quality, patience, meaning this is long lasting. You're really going to get your money's worth. Right. And I'll describe how it's made in precision and I will use that language that I know this person is using every day of their life. This is who they are. 

So now what I'm doing is taking my widgets and I'm looking around and saying to myself, “how can I describe my widget in what I'm seeing?” Which is precision, which is quality, et cetera. So once I describe it that way, there's another thing that happens. I become an object as well.

Kim Eley (21:41):

Oh, how so?

John Voris (21:42):

Because that's what we all do. We are all archetypes. So he's looking at me and I am for promoting these qualities. And he is those qualities. And therefore I am promoting the qualities he appreciates.

Kim Eley (21:59):

Gotcha. Okay. Okay.

John Voris (22:01):

Qualities that he is drawn to. So everything around that carpenter is something that resonates with his or her identity. And all I have to do is match the language to what I'm looking at. 

Now that doesn't mean I had a hundred percent sales, but I did have over 60% so that he would be compelled to see me and the object I'm selling to be within his domain of conforming symbols. Meaning he wants this symbol in his life.

Kim Eley (22:32):

Gotcha. Okay.

John Voris (22:34):

So it's almost like saying we trust people who are like ourselves.

Kim Eley (22:38):

Right, right.

John Voris (22:39):

So, well that's exactly what I'm doing when I'm speaking in these terms, I'm also bringing myself in as an arch, a living archetype that is conforming to who he is. Now let's say I'm going to go to a beauty salon—direct opposite. you have a beautician. So what does it take to be a beautician?

Kim Eley (22:58):

Well, you need to be sociable. You need to be, I would say, curious because you would keep up with trends and also observant because you would observe people's face shapes. Not give somebody a weird haircut based on their face shape. <Laugh>

John Voris (23:16):

Okay. All right. So the first thing, now I've left my master carpenter.

Kim Eley (23:21):

Okay.

John Voris (23:22):

I sold him 30 pounds of lobster.

Kim Eley (23:24):

Okay.

John Voris (23:25):

Taken millions of dollars from him. Anyway, so now I'm going to go to the beauty operator. So I know with the carpenter I'm serious. Specific.

Now I'm going to go to the beauty salon and I'm going to open up the door, big smile on my face, look around and—what's happening? All these ladies are having a good time and talking about their husbands and what they're doing, their shopping and all that. So I'm able to find who owns the store. Cause that's the one that has, looks like they have the most pressure <laugh>. That is guesswork. I have to admit that. But what I'll do is social. So I'll walk up to that person and say, “by the way, do you know Margaret a couple doors down?” 

“Oh yeah. Yeah. I know her.” 

“well you know, she just bought this, that and the other from me.”

Kim Eley (24:11):

Ah.

John Voris (24:12):

“Hey, have you heard of my company before?” You see totally different. And then when I describe it, cause I was selling food, the way I would describe it is how much fun it is. Like I would sell hams of all things. “And so this is how they take this ham and it's all pre-cooked and it's great for Thanksgiving and Christmas time. Over here on my list, I've got the shrimp, I got the lobster, I got crab, I have this and that. Sausage, whatever you need.” And I would talk about how good tasting it is.

Kim Eley (24:43):

Mm. Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (24:44):

I would never talk about detail.

Kim Eley (24:46):

Right.

John Voris (24:47):

I would never get into the mathematics of it. This is not about patience at all.

Kim Eley (24:52):

Right? Right.

John Voris (24:54):

I come in like a fun guy the best I can.

Kim Eley (24:57):

Yes. <laugh>

John Voris (24:58):

And that's what I want to do. It's going to be fun, it's going to be social, you see? 

So then the same thing. Now I have an object that generates excitement and fun. And that person I have to talk about price. Of course. And that person would like that in their life.

Kim Eley (25:16):

Excellent. Excellent.

John Voris (25:19):

Well I used to call her the Queen bee

Kim Eley (25:21):

<Laugh>. Love it. That's great.

John Voris (25:23):

So once you sell the queen bee the rest come in.

Kim Eley (25:27):

Gotcha. 

John Voris (25:28):

That could happen on that. But you see I had, because Authentic Systems consists of four domains, love, justice, wisdom and power, I would have four different approaches.

Kim Eley (25:40):

Gotcha. 

John Voris (25:41):

Not one. That's what America does. One size fits all. No, I have four different approaches and I will know which approach to use before I even see them.

Kim Eley (25:53):

Ah, gotcha.

John Voris (25:54):

For example, we know for me to find a carpenter that doesn't understand detail, a master carpenter would be extremely hard to find, if not impossible.

Kim Eley (26:04):

True.

John Voris (26:04):

How about a master carpenter who does not have any patience?

Kim Eley (26:08):

Oh yeah.

John Voris (26:10):

So you see what we are doing is we're looking at the inner motivations of a person we don't even know yet.

Kim Eley (26:17):

Wow. That's cool. Do we apply it also with where we live?

John Voris (26:22):

Well, sure, yeah, absolutely. In your home. But this is where it really is fun. We've got—so that's application we were talking about now that's sales application. I did one years [ago with] married couples.

Kim Eley (26:35):

Uhhuh!

John Voris (26:35):

It's the same thing.

Kim Eley (26:37):

Uhhuh.

John Voris (26:38):

Okay. You have things that you purchased in your lifetime that you really enjoy and your husband did the same thing. And these objects resonate with who each of you is. And it starts the assessment forward by understanding that of the themes that you are like love, justice, wisdom and power. So if you're married to a justice person, for example, we would know that. That was started. But after we know those four, then we get into the other aspects of an identity, which is their facilitators and motivators, et cetera. There's 12 aspects. 

But for immediate application, the idea of the four themes can be ascertained with just a few questions or observations. And that worked out. And I had to do this rapidly.

Kim Eley (27:27):

Mm-Hmm. 

John Voris (27:27):

And now what I did another year in Rotary, we had to secure some services and objects for a silent auction.

Kim Eley (27:38):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (27:38):

So what I did is I walked down the street and I've driven down, I've never been in the stores. And so I used this technique of reading symbols. Now I might pass three or four buildings because [they] didn't conform to what I was doing.

Kim Eley (27:53):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (27:54):

Or I look through the window and I would say, “wait a minute, that looks like a young lady in her early twenties, probably college age. This is her part-time job. This is what she does, but she doesn't really conform to this business.”

Kim Eley (28:07):

Ah, gotcha. Ok.

John Voris (28:08):

So I wouldn't approach that now. When I approached another and I would see a woman in her thirties and forties, it's not an age factor, but I, it's part of it. And I'd say, “man, it could slide with it. She could be the owner.” Then I walk in and then I follow through with what I'm doing. First year I did that, I had 20 donations for 20 businesses.

Kim Eley (28:29):

Dang!

John Voris (28:30):

Next was 19 and the next was 19. We did it three years ago.

Kim Eley (28:35):

Wow, that's fantastic!

John Voris (28:36):

But, but I might, I might pass 60 businesses.

Kim Eley (28:40):

Right. Right.

John Voris (28:42):

So that might be clear.

Kim Eley (28:43):

Yeah. In a traditional sales approach it would be use the same script. So you would be using the same language and the sales script would say, “go to every single stop that you could.” 

I'm thinking because of the law of averages, the more you go to, the better you'll do. And in fact, this is more selective, so your odds are better. Gotcha. Yeah.

John Voris (29:08):

You are, but what [is is] selective in the sense that what you're doing is you're engaged with how humans function.

Kim Eley (29:15):

Yes.

John Voris (29:15):

That's the different, this is what humans do every day, is they live in a world of symbolic meaning. And, and this is the way in which they can express themselves. 

In fact, in my book I say that human mind has only one need. And that one need is to express their authentic identity. And they do it through conforming symbols of meaning.

Kim Eley (29:36):

Very cool. 

So I have an example and I'm thinking that this could be really fun example. So say I am a Girl Scout and I am selling Girl Scout cookies. And let me tell you John, I love me some, some Girl Scout cookies! 

So if I were to take the Authentic Systems approach in mind, but the object—the cookie is the same each time, but what it symbolizes to different people I'm selling it to would possibly change. Meaning if I could tell somebody as a loving, warm person, and I think they might be a love life theme, I would appeal to, “oh my goodness, wouldn't you love to buy these thin mints and support our group because we do so many good things for the community?” versus taking a different approach for say a wisdom person. 

Oh, I'm painting myself in a corner. Because I'm trying to think of how I could sell a Girl Scout cookies to a wisdom—

John Voris (30:41):

Ok. I want to know what it's [the cookie] made out of. I want to know the process.

Kim Eley (30:45):

There we go!

John Voris (30:46):

And how and how different it is than the grocery stores.

Kim Eley (30:50):

Ah, there we go. Okay. Okay. Excellent. 

So next I'm selling to a, a justice life theme. And justice, just as a recap for everybody, is a combination really of wisdom and love life theme. So how would you sell Girl Scout cookies to a justice life theme person?

John Voris (31:09):

I would explain what they would do with the money.

Kim Eley (31:12):

Ah.

John Voris (31:12):

“And so we're going to offset some deficiencies that we need to fill in, but I don't know, girl scout uniforms” or whatever that they need. And this will help them do that.

Kim Eley (31:25):

Excellent. Okay. And then the last one is the power life theme. How would you sell Girl Scout cookies to somebody with a power life theme?

John Voris (31:32):

The power life theme? I would want them to feel exclusive. That we're not everywhere selling these cookies. “You are lucky!”

Kim Eley (31:43):

Ah!

John Voris (31:43):

Yes. And so, “I want you to know that these are the only ones we have, or we'll be running out. You have better grab a couple soon!”

Kim Eley (31:51):

<Laugh>. Love it, love it, love it, love it. That's how the object itself physically stays the same, but that's why the meaning is different depending on who you are.

John Voris (32:02):

Absolutely. And so good idea is—let's say a Prius, someone, a love person would say, “I like a Prius because I want to save the world.” Right? The justice person would say, let's go to the wisdom would say, “I really like the Prius because the technology is so different.”

Kim Eley (32:19):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (32:19):

The justice person would say, you know, “I'm an offset [to] the carbon footprint by getting a Prius. The other one would say, “I'm going to lead, or my local community in the right way of combating climate change.”

Kim Eley (32:35):

Ah, gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (32:37):

Now, if you had all those four approaches memorized, then whoever came on the lot, you would begin to know who they are, what they want.

Kim Eley (32:48):

Right.

John Voris (32:49):

Right. I want to be very clear that I made a living off this for 20 years.

Kim Eley (32:53):

That's amazing!

John Voris (32:55):

And in order to do this, I had to abandon everything I ever learned in any sales training.

Kim Eley (33:03):

Wow.

John Voris (33:04):

I had to, and by doing so, I'm someone who should have never been in sales. So I had everything against me. I told you I, I failed seven times in the beginning. So I really needed something badly. And so I had to reinvent the sales approach in order to find success. I couldn't do it the traditional way at all.

Kim Eley (33:23):

That's amazing. I love, and thank you for explaining the different, you know, the way we in America look at objects versus the European approach. 

And I think that's important to realize that symbols are all around us. It's not just the, you know, shape of a fruit on a computer. It's everything. It's everything around us. And even we ourselves can be objects!

John Voris (33:50):

<Laugh>. Oh yes. In fact, I remember I assessed this lady and I walked her out to the car and she had a Mercedes. And I looked at her and I said, “you didn't want this Mercedes!” She says, “how did you know that?” I told her, “Your blouse told me.”

Kim Eley (34:06):

Ooh. Okay, tell me more. Tell me more.

John Voris (34:09):

So she had like a paisley bright colored blouse.

Kim Eley (34:14):

Ah,

John Voris (34:15):

And here was this in the world of real estate, for example, here's just a, this is an upgraded car that you see a lot of realtors drive. And also they're expensive. So I already knew that she was a love person.

Kim Eley (34:32):

Ah,

John Voris (34:33):

And she was frugal.

Kim Eley (34:36):

Mm-Hmm.

John Voris (34:36):

And so she did this only to, because it was expected and she felt she had to have an image and she didn't want it. 

And also she doesn't rejuvenate in this area. Her blouse does, her blouse represented how she rejuvenates—chaos. She loves chaos. It's a [show] here's a love person who [loves], what's it called? “The Deadliest Catch.”

Kim Eley (35:02):

Oh yes.

John Voris (35:03):

She loves it.

John Voris (35:05):

Because it's all chaos. Total chaos. So her blouse told me the rejuvenation and this Mercedes gray didn't match it whatsoever. So that's how I came to that conclusion.

Kim Eley (35:16):

Fantastic. Love it.

John Voris (35:18):

But I was right. And the point is, I can jump off from that point. If I need something else, need something to do, need to persuade her in one direction or another influence. If I was a counselor, a coach, this comes into play. 

I have a career counselor using this system. And so once you have the system, it could be applied anywhere.

Kim Eley (35:43):

Oh heck yes. It is so powerful. So, and that's why I'm glad we're sharing this with the world. So, yay!

This has been so fascinating. We're going to have to wrap up here. John. If somebody has listened to this and they're like, “hot dang, I want to know more about it. I want to be able to use this in my own life,” how would they go about, you know, contacting you?

John Voris (36:05):

Well, first of all, we're undergoing some reconstruction of my website, so I would suggest you approach me directly through my email. At john@authentic-systems.com. 

Also on Amazon, I do have two books, which are Discover The Power That Drives Your Personality and Learn To Sell What They're Buying.

Kim Eley (36:27):

Fantastic. Thank you so much. This is—I always [learn] so much. It's awesome. So, all right, well everybody, I hope you join us again next time and until then, take care of your authentic self <laugh>.