Escapism: How to Rejuvenate

Have you ever wanted to escape reality? You’re not alone.  Rejuvenation isn’t just a want; it’s essential for our physical and mental well-being.

In this episode of Authentic Living, co-hosts John Voris and Kim Eley explore how to rest your body and mind in order to restore balance. 

They discuss why activities that may seem out of sync with our Life Themes—Love, Justice, Wisdom, and Power—are often just what we need. 

Learn how rejuvenation can provide a much-needed break from the everyday hustle and bustle of life. Tune in to get the tips you need to learn how to rest your body and invigorate your soul.

For more information go to johnvoris.com

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Transcript

Escapism: How to Rejuvenate

Kim Eley (00:04):

All right. Well, here we are again. It's our, your co-hosts me, Kim Eley, and also John. 

And [we are] excited to dive into this topic today because we've talked a lot about Authentic Systems. And Authentic Systems is about who you are, correct?

John Voris (00:30):

Correct. .

Kim Eley (00:31):

But in your studies and research there have been times when somebody does something opposite to who they are.

John Voris (00:45):

That's very true.

Kim Eley (00:46):

I'm setting this up very mysteriously so that you can explain it to us. But if you wouldn't mind, <laugh>, please jump into, okay. 

What we're, what we're talking about today, which is rejuvenation.

John Voris (00:59):

All right. Well during the day, we're always acting and let's say believing in, in ways that express our authentic identity.

Kim Eley (01:14):

Right.

John Voris (01:15):

And so that takes a lot of energy. And what we'd like to do sometimes is take a break and escape.

Kim Eley (01:25):

Yeah.

John Voris (01:26):

And so this escapism is the function of rejuvenation, to relax, to relax the the machine that we are, the authentic eye side and the synthetic side. We're always working the abstract and the physical, the belief system, and what we do. And so we have to take a break and rejuvenate. So some people doodle. Hmm. Some people daydream.

Kim Eley (01:56):

John Voris (01:57):

Some people take walks, and of course, some people would like to go boating and fishing and camping and all these things.

Kim Eley (02:05):

Right.

John Voris (02:06):

The idea is that you wanna escape what you normally do.

Kim Eley (02:12):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (02:15):

That, that's very important. And know what you normally do.  so that many people will notice that you, you are behaving in a way that is really quite opposite to what you normally do. Right. My wife's the power person, and so she loves comedy.

Kim Eley (02:35):

Huh!

John Voris (02:35):

And then comedy is chaos, you don't know what's happening next.  she can't anticipate what's gonna happen. That doesn't seem to be any structure And so she can get lost in that. And that's the point, getting lost into the rejuvenation.

Kim Eley (02:54):

And this is in contrast to her normal state of being in power. Maybe describe that a little bit.

John Voris (03:01):

Well, the power person is always looking for change, responsibility.

John Voris (03:10):

And so what ha and also control that needs control in order to do that.

Kim Eley (03:16):

Right.

John Voris (03:16):

So if you take control away and responsibility away, and you can't change anything, but be recipients, that's one thing.  The other side is the power person really spends a great deal of time in being serious.

Kim Eley (03:30):

Gotcha. Because they're the natural leaders. Is that right? Yes. Okay.

John Voris (03:34):

Yes. So to escape seriousness , they engage in comedy. Gotcha. Or, or an example, there's only one

Kim Eley (03:42):

Right. Right.

John Voris (03:43):

But you'll always look for something that's a little different. Another one, I have a love theme person who likes the deadliest catch.

Kim Eley (03:55):

<Laugh>. Now, that's the TV show about the Alaskans. And they go out on those crazy boat rides that always looks like they're gonna capsize!

John Voris (04:05):

<Laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. And so that's by looking at how someone rejuvenates, you can also in interpret what their their theme might be.

Kim Eley (04:18):

Ah, so cool. So you could look at, oh, what, you know, if you enjoy doing this activity, it, it's, it's the opposite. The opposite of what that type of rejuvenation is—ends up being their life theme. Interesting. 

What about you? Because I know you're a wisdom life theme.

John Voris (04:37):

Well, what I do is I like to take long trips and and not, not have a book in my hand and not learning anything and being on the receiving end  traveling maybe up in the mountains or something. And the point is, is when I do an assessment, we have a session  they, they all, I get the receive the answer. Your, your rejuvenation is chaos in the unknown. And the reason is, is you, this, each individual has their own type and kind of rejuvenation.

Kim Eley (05:14):

Right. Okay.

John Voris (05:16):

And we could have several types of rejuvenation, several activities , but it all, it all go, goes back to the same thing that you have to suspend your authentic identity for a while to rejuvenate.

Kim Eley (05:33):

And I'm thinking, and tell me if I'm on the right track, it kind of makes sense, because if you're in the state of being all the time, like you said, you exert a lot of energy while you do that being, but all of us need I think they call it in the military R and R, you know, rest and relaxation. Yeah, we can't all be go, go, go all the time, or we are burned out individuals.

John Voris (05:56):

That's right. That's that. Very good.

Kim Eley (05:59):

So I'm thinking, tell me what you think of this too, with rejuvenation. There's probably different forms of it. Like, there could be a short rejuvenation, there could be a longer rejuvenation. Like I'm thinking of a vacation versus maybe watching a quick television show.

John Voris (06:20):

Oh, sure. It all, in fact you could be an accountant sitting at your table and doodle, doodle for five minutes, and then you get back to work.

Kim Eley (06:30):

Right. 

John Voris (06:31):

You could stare out the window. You could do anything that escapes your authentic identity for just a moment to a vacation. But what's interesting is many, you hear many people say, “my God, I went to vacation in Hawaii and I had to come home to relax.”

Kim Eley (06:49):

<Laugh>, what's that all about? <Laugh>

John Voris (06:52):

Well, all they're doing is taking their authentic identity to Hawaii, and they're not rejuvenating.

Kim Eley (06:58):

Ah, I see. I'm, I'm picturing the person who has their laptop and their lap on the beach. Like they're not enjoying it. Yes. Yeah.

John Voris (07:05):

That's what they do.

Kim Eley (07:06):

Gotcha.

John Voris (07:07):

And so but the, you have to let set that down, and you have to completely abandon that for a while.

Kim Eley (07:13):

Right.

John Voris (07:14):

In order to escape. The other is in, in, in games, for example, let's say you can be a card game, you're gonna see a baseball game, whatever. And who's drawn to that? Well, everybody, all four are drawn to say, football, baseball, basketball, et cetera. But the point is, is that you games are designed to have a purpose

Kim Eley (07:40):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

John Voris (07:41):

And it, it has meaning in itself  and you, and it has a relationship to you And it's, it's about some form of action is involved.

Kim Eley (07:55):

Gotcha. Okay.

John Voris (07:56):

So you can be playing cards, you can be playing chess. You could go to a football game, basketball game where there's more excitement. , it gets closer to identifying what a justice person is cause of lack of harmony.

Kim Eley (08:13):

Gotcha.

John Voris (08:14):

Anxiety, you don't know what's next.

Kim Eley (08:18):

Right.

John Voris (08:19):

Okay. And so the lack of harmony and balance is what these sports are all about.

Kim Eley (08:27):

You know, it's occurring to me…

John Voris (08:28):

Or a justice person…

Kim Eley (08:29):

You know, what's occurring to me as well is the fact that I, I think this is true for, for, you know, vacation. Is that with the games, like for instance, with sports, because that is a different world, or, or it has its own rules, you can rejuvenate, but tell me this, it's also sort of a safe space, quote unquote, because in the quote, “real world” when we're interacting with people, you know, depending on what our job is, like, let's say there's somebody who's a nurse, you know, their job is probably intense, and any decisions that they make are, you know, literally life or death in a game. Say the same nurse goes off duty and goes play and plays volleyball with her friends. She, she can bring some intensity, some ferocity to that per, but presumably nobody's gonna die!

John Voris (09:25):

<Laugh>. Oh, yes.

Kim Eley (09:35):

Gotcha. So, speaking of justice, people, we talked about how power and wisdom and love people rejuvenate, but we didn't talk about how justice people rejuvenate.

John Voris (09:47):

Oh. very common is, is games. Like my son-in-law loves going to the baseball and, and football games. And the other thing he likes is horror movies.

Kim Eley (10:03):

Ah, <laugh>.

John Voris (10:05):

Because remember, the justice people are a combination of love and wisdom.

Kim Eley (10:08):

Right, right, right, right.

John Voris (10:10):

So he has two styles of rejuvenation and—

Kim Eley (10:16):

Ah, interesting.

John Voris (10:17):

Yeah. So the opposite of caring and is can be like some something like the horror movies that he watches.

Kim Eley (10:28):

Great. Right.

John Voris (10:29):

Is that, what about you?

Kim Eley (10:32):

<Laugh>? I'm laughing at that because I am a huge horror movie fan, and I, I am a, a love life theme, but golly, I just love a good horror movie. And it's funny because my friends will be like, “Kim, you're so nice. You seem like such a pleasant person. Why do you wanna watch these horror movies?” 

I'm like, “I love 'em. I escape in them. They're so much fun,” <laugh>. And not that I wanna live out. Oh, I don't wanna live out the horror movie, but I enjoy watching it. It's a great escape.

John Voris (11:01):

Right,

Kim Eley (11:01):

Right.

John Voris (11:01):

<Laugh>. And so I have a another a love theme who—who rejuvenates through that deadliest catch.

Kim Eley (11:07):

Right.

John Voris (11:08):

And and so there's start, you start seeing a pattern.

Kim Eley (11:12):

Right, right.

John Voris (11:16):

So the idea of that is, one is to give people permission  to rejuvenate , because it's essential to the overall mental state. And the other is you can actually look at someone's form of rejuvenation and, and possibly extrapolate their theme.

Kim Eley (11:38):

Gotcha. Gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (11:41):

And so that that's another method that I use when I'm, when I was out in the world and I was in sales is I watched what they did for fun as much as what they did that was serious.

Kim Eley (11:52):

So I, I have a question for you based on that, because we were talking about, for instance games and sports, and I think you had said that all fourth life themes love, justice, wisdom and power enjoy games and sports. 

So I imagine knowing what I know about Authentic Systems, that they probably enjoy that sport or game, but probably each of them is coming from a different standpoint or a different viewpoint. So how do you extrapolate that? It, it—I guess you couldn't just say, and I could be wrong, but you couldn't just say, “oh, John likes to play golf, so therefore he's a, this life theme.” It's not quite as, as cut and dry as, “oh, you like to go surfing, so you must be this life theme.”

John Voris (12:44):

Well you look at all of us, it's a listing. And so because you can have all four quadrants, like one specific sport , but you're right. It's all going be on what are they getting out of it individually.

Kim Eley (12:59):

Right, right, right, right.

John Voris (13:01):

So let's say golf Now I, I did, I used to golf when I was in high school.

Kim Eley (13:06):

Oh, did you? Okay.

John Voris (13:07):

Yeah. And I was very bad at it.

Kim Eley (13:09):

Oh, no. <Laugh>.

John Voris (13:10):

And part of that was because it takes a lot of practice, and it does. I didn't wanna devote the time. But anyway the point is, is that what I liked about it was you're out golfing, and I really liked where I was golfing. I liked, they, they're beautifully groomed courses.

You're with other people, and that's where the little bit of the chaos could occur. What I didn't like about golf is I could not know where the ball's gonna go.

Kim Eley (13:42):

Ah. And as a wisdom person that probably drove you up a tree!

John Voris (13:45):

Drove me crazy <laugh> because I tried to hit the ball in a certain way and it wouldn't go there. So it's not, it's not the fact that the ball didn't go there. Hmm. But I could not predict properly.

Kim Eley (13:59):

Ah, so that was chaos, but not in a pleasant rejuvenating form for you.

John Voris (14:04):

Yeah. There's no—yeah. What, what does this, when I hold a club this way and I do this and that, what does, this all should pull us into some form of meaning that I can anticipate.

Kim Eley (14:16):

Right.

John Voris (14:16):

But I'm in a sport. I mean, that was a ridiculous position to be in.

Kim Eley (14:20):

Yeah. Yeah.

John Voris (14:21):

See now I enjoyed chess though.

Kim Eley (14:27):

Oh, I bet you did. Yeah.

John Voris (14:29):

And I went to many tournaments and did well, and that's because, “Awesome. I can control my side.” I couldn't control their side. But that was the challenge, and that was fun.

Kim Eley (14:39):

Right. So, I imagine, again, tell me if I'm on the wrong track, but with chess, because you enjoyed playing that a lot of chess has to do with not only, only understanding how the, the different pieces on the board move, but the strategies involved. Did you read up on it as you were playing?

John Voris (15:01):

Yes, uh huh. The, the real—to be a master in chess , you, you have to live your life doing that. Reading books. Yeah. And I went to a a chess tournament in Las Vegas, and <laugh>, they had a whole room of books on chess.

Kim Eley (15:23):

Yeah. Oh, I bet.

John Voris (15:24):

The different moves and all the history of games. And what these people do is actually memorize usually about the first 18 moves open, the opening is what they call it, the opening. They make 15 moves, they memorize every possibility.

Kim Eley (15:39):

Wow.

John Voris (15:41):

And I'm not gonna do that.

Kim Eley (15:42):

<Laugh>.

John Voris (15:45):

No. That sounds like work. And that's not what I'm in into. But anyway, so that's just one style of of game And I did enjoy it because it was rejuvenating in the sense that I didn't know what the other person was gonna do.

Kim Eley (16:02):

Gotcha. Gotcha.

John Voris (16:05):

So there's a mystery there. And so I was on the receiving end just waiting for that next move. 

And so that was my style of rejuvenation, not knowing. That's why I like to take long trips. Cause I—In a sense, I know what it's like to go take a long drive in a road in the, you know, back woods or whatever. I know. 

But at the same time, I don't know what's around the next turn. I don't know. There, there there's gonna be wind, the trees are moving there could be animals. Lots of things can happen. And that's the point of it.

Kim Eley (16:38):

Right.

John Voris (16:39):

I, I had one wisdom person who loved getting in a bus  to any, to anywhere.

Kim Eley (16:45):

Ooh!

John Voris (16:46):

Yes. So that person would take a bus from oh, Castro Valley in California and, and go across the bridge to San Francisco and from the San Francisco down in San Mateo. And then down in San Jose, next day, they'd go to Monterey. And they, and so they would just really, their life was sitting in the bus.

Kim Eley (17:07):

Right. Oh my gosh. All that time.

John Voris (17:09):

And then look at trains  also as another way to go. Yeah. I really enjoy trains.

Kim Eley (17:16):

Nice.

John Voris (17:16):

Yeah. Because it's, everything's new.

Kim Eley (17:18):

Everything is new. So that's very cool. And it's, it's also, I would imagine, again, not to, to, to keep repeating myself, but it's a safe form of getting into something you're not aware of or you don't already know about.

John Voris (17:33):

Right.

Kim Eley (17:34):

Presumably, you're not getting on a train to somewhere crazy.

John Voris (17:39):

<Laugh>

Kim Eley (17:40):

<Laugh>, not like, “John, just jump on this train, you know, hobo style.” 

John Voris (17:45):

Oh no, no, no, no, I'm not. You know why? Because I really, so there's two sides. The irony about rejuvenation and the authentic identity is there's a paradox in every one of us.

Kim Eley (17:58):

Mm. Okay.

John Voris (17:58):

Paradox is for a caring person to find someone in need. 

Kim Eley (18:07):

Mm.

John Voris (18:09):

For a wisdom person, they're looking for people who don't know.

Kim Eley (18:14):

Right.

John Voris (18:15):

Okay. And justice as people are looking for people out of disharmony.

Kim Eley (18:20):

Right.

John Voris (18:22):

And power people are looking for those that are in inaction.

Kim Eley (18:26):

Yeah. Awesome. 

John Voris (18:30):

You see that, so that's the paradox of it all. And so that's important because it creates tension.

Kim Eley (18:37):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

John Voris (18:37):

And tension is in a sense the core of motivation.

Kim Eley (18:42):

You have to have your opposite in order to express who you really are.

John Voris (18:49):

Right.

Kim Eley (18:49):

Because if I didn't have people to care about, if you didn't have people to educate or inform, you know, if, if we didn't have those people, it, it's like the people with whom you've worked who haven't found their purpose. 

I'm thinking a a few episodes ago when we talked about the gentleman who—his need was to help other people  and his family was like, “what are you doing? You know, we don't understand why you keep getting into these situations.” He was volunteering to help his friends at restaurants. It seemed very transient and temporary, but he needed those people who needed help in order to be the helper. He needed the, the people who needed the help.

John Voris (19:37):

Exactly.

Kim Eley (19:38):

Yeah. Sorry, I hope that's not a blinding glimpse of the obvious, but that just occurred to me that we have to seek those people who are opposite of us. That's why we all get along together. 

Isn't that a very love person thing to say? That's why we're all connected and we need each other. <Laugh>.

John Voris (19:55):

There you go. There you go.

Kim Eley (19:57):

I'm very on theme, John. I am very on theme!

John Voris (20:00):

Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. So yeah, that's people, we don't get into what, we just think that it plays entertainment and it is that, but that's how, that's, we leave it at that.

Kim Eley (20:14):

Right. Right.

John Voris (20:15):

Now, lots of studies on when, when you get into children, they're learning a great deal. Their minds are growing, and the one focus is they're learning symbolism.

Kim Eley (20:27):

Mm.

John Voris (20:29):

So when you're young, you always pretend.

John Voris (20:33):

And you come up with ideas of, “oh, today I'm gonna be a cowboy and I'm gonna go get that board two by four, and it's only about four feet long, and I'm gonna put string around it, and that's gonna be my horse.”

Kim Eley (20:47):

<Laugh>. Love it!

John Voris (20:50):

“And so I'm gonna drag that around the yard and gallop and, and, and tie 'em up to the trees. And and so I'm gonna be a cowboy for maybe 20 minutes. I don't know. I don't know.”

Kim Eley (21:03):

Yeah. Yeah. 

John Voris (21:05):

And then maybe I might get bored and said, “no, I wanna be a four star general.”

Kim Eley (21:09):

<Laugh>.

John Voris (21:10):

“I have an army.” And so <laugh>. So I will create that. And how many kids they get a, a, a large box, they get a gift, here's a large box, and what do they do? They, they create a little hole in the box, and they get in the box because that's their fort. Or that's their house. Or whatever. And they're gonna play army. Maybe they might even cut out windows. <Laugh>. It's all about learning what a symbol is.

Kim Eley (21:37):

Oh, I love that. Well, John, we need to take a quick break, but when we come back, let's keep diving into rejuvenation. In the symbolism.

John Voris (21:46):

Very good.

(Break)

Kim Eley (21:51):

All right. So we are back and we're talking about rejuvenation, and we were talking before the break about symbolism and especially how kids play. 

John Voris (22:03):

Right. And, and during that time, it's all about learning symbolism  and how it works. And it it, what they're doing also is engaging in archetypes.

Kim Eley (22:16):

Ah, how so?

John Voris (22:18):

Well, because an archetype is well, let's say if I say the word oh, let's say sadness.

Kim Eley (22:28):

Okay.

John Voris (22:30):

So we know that's different than joy.

Kim Eley (22:32):

Yes.

John Voris (22:34):

But we just know it.

Kim Eley (22:35):

Right. Nobody has to tell us. Yeah.

John Voris (22:39):

But it, but we practice when we're young, we, we experience these things and practice dimensions of an idea like love or envy or jealousy, or anger, whatever it is, doesn't matter. We, we start seeing the boundaries of each one, how they're related and how they're not related.

Kim Eley (23:00):

Gotcha.

John Voris (23:02):

And so that part of the exercise begins when we're young. This is from Jean Piaget, who was a French child psychologist. Well, did a great deal of research during that time And this is what he came up with. And I thought it was very interesting. And I, I, I used it out in my studies and field, and it, I found it consistent.

Kim Eley (23:40):

Excellent. Very cool. So, so I wanted to ask you about an aspect of rejuvenation, and that is permission.

John Voris (23:50):

Yes. So, when you are engaged, let's say you're watching television, and you feel relaxed and you're having a great time, and you but you know, there's dishes to be clean.

Kim Eley (24:04):

My house, my house, John! <laugh>

John Voris (24:06):

There's always work to do. Doesn't matter.

Kim Eley (24:08):

Right.

John Voris (24:09):

When, so you watch TV, and then you see a story, and then it's over, and then you're, “well, I like to see one more,” and then, “no, no, no, no. I spent enough time. I, I have to get those dishes!”

Kim Eley (24:20):

Uhhuh, <affirmative>.

John Voris (24:21):

So the guilt is, “I'm sitting here doing nothing. Not being productive. And so I need to get up and do something.” 

And so when you have that little pang of guilt, that's your psyche saying, “okay, you've rested enough.”

Kim Eley (24:37):

Gotcha.

John Voris (24:39):

So what people do is rather, is they look at watching TV as a distraction, and [say] “I'm just not gonna do that anymore.”

Kim Eley (24:52):

Oh.

John Voris (24:53):

And so they don't, because they, they did feel that guilt and that that responsibilities and obligation sets in.

John Voris (25:00):

And so when they do that and they don't rejuvenate, there is going to be symptoms because they're gonna feel more anxious they're gonna feel tired. And that's why people must re—and they do, they rejuvenate all the time. In different forms, you can doodle  and escape for maybe five minutes, stare out the window, take a, a short walk, but it doesn't matter what you're doing, the, the guilt comes into play. And that's the, that's like someone's traffic cop saying, “stop”. That's all that means.

Kim Eley (25:38):

So do we need to give ourselves permission to rejuvenate?

John Voris (25:44):

Right. Exactly. That, that's especially when it comes to, let's say teenagers, and they're always playing these games, video games.

Kim Eley (25:53):

Mm. Video games. Yeah. Yeah.

John Voris (25:54):

If they weren't playing the video games, they'd be out front throwing ball with their friend next door.

Kim Eley (25:59):

Right.

John Voris (26:00):

Or they might be hiking. So it is, it's, the idea is, is they need to escape. And, and those video games are designed around symbolism.

Kim Eley (26:10):

Oh, how so?

John Voris (26:13):

Because you are now the soldier, and you are going to see the enemy, and this is all make believe.

Kim Eley (26:20):

So it's like a video form of the, the little, little kid we were talking about before, who takes the two by four and the string and pretends it's a horse. But this is like a, a, a video game expression of, “oh, now I'm a soldier and I'm playing Call of Duty.” And now I'm driving a car in, you know, grand Theft Auto, or whatever. 

John Voris (26:40):

Exactly. What I I would say is, you know, when when these teenagers are actually neglecting responsibilities and obligations, no. That's when you have to put a stop. But on the other hand having them play those games once in a while, there's nothing wrong with it.

Kim Eley (26:57):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there ever a danger that somebody could it, it, it rejuvenate and, and, and <laugh> and never come back? <Laugh> 

Or, or would would everybody's psyche pretty much kick in and go, “well, snap, I really should get back to doing some serious work.” <Laugh>.

John Voris (27:19):

Well, what's what's interesting about that is the rejuvenation can become a career.

Kim Eley (27:28):

How so?

John Voris (27:30):

So maybe you have a hobby of taking pictures , and that's your rejuvenation. You really like it , and you think nothing of it. And then you show your photos to a, a teacher and says, “these are really great, can you do some more?” And so, “oh, okay.” So you go out and you take some more pictures and more pictures and more pictures, and people say, “can you submit this to the school newspaper” or whatever? And so you do more. And before you know it, this rejuvenation has become a career for you.

Kim Eley (28:03):

Interesting. So then once your rejuvenation, say photography becomes your career, do you then have a different form of rejuvenation?

John Voris (28:13):

Yes. Absolutely.

Kim Eley (28:15):

Gotcha. That makes sense. Yeah.

John Voris (28:17):

Yeah. And so—but in that moment of rejuvenation is you're escaping, but you have the type you could for example I knew a justice person who was a professional photographer, and the reason why it worked for him is because he was always looking for harmony.

Kim Eley (28:40):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (28:41):

So he really enjoyed a nature photos, and he would send them in to magazines—

Kim Eley (28:47):

Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>

John Voris (28:48):

—and get paid for, and he did.

Kim Eley (28:50):

Oh, that's awesome. You know?

John Voris (28:51):

Yeah. So that's rejuvenation and yeah. You can actually make if you could make money from it that's great. And a lot of people do.

Kim Eley (29:00):

Yeah. Well, that's fantastic.

John Voris (29:02):

That's where you get the phase when you go to work. It shouldn't be. Work should be fun.

Kim Eley (29:07):

Right, right, right, right. Like what is the expression? If you do what you love, you never work another day of your life, which is a little misleading because that makes it sound like “woooo woo! I never have responsibilities again,” that—that's not what they mean. <laugh>

John Voris (29:22):

No, no, no, no, no, no. That's, see now that what's happening is what you do for a living , it, it, that's it. That's the authentic question for you. But what you do with the money is something different.

Kim Eley (29:36):

Oh, okay. Tell, tell me more. <Laugh>.

John Voris (29:38):

Well, hey, it's like if you have responsibilities for what? Paying the bills. Right?

Kim Eley (29:42):

Right.

John Voris (29:43):

Yeah. So you have to do that. But how you do that, the bills don't care.

Kim Eley (29:49):

Right. The bills don't care if you, you know, washed cars or you took pictures. Right. Yeah. The money is the money. 

John Voris (29:57):

That’s right. So, so and that form of obligation is very, very different. But the only point is, is that you just need a brief time to rejuvenate. And that's, you know, even, even out of a whole year, if you went to four football games, that's out of a whole year. 

So but even then when you were at a football game, there is rejuvenation. And then you're also acting somewhat like the normal, authentic same time because like, I, I would go to a football game and I don't know what's gonna happen next.

Kim Eley (30:33):

Right. 

John Voris (30:34):

Justice, this person would say things are out of balance or looking for what's unfair.

Kim Eley (30:38):

Right. Right, right, right.

John Voris (30:40):

And the love person is rooting for their team. 

Kim Eley (30:44):

Right. <laugh>. Right.

John Voris (30:44):

So the, the other, the power person is looking for all the action on the, on the field.

Kim Eley (30:49):

Right.

John Voris (30:50):

So they come and they're all looking for something different on a authentic level, synthetically in the world of, of what's going on. Physically, it's all the same.

Kim Eley (31:00):

So I have a question. Because you know, we've talked before about the, the book I wrote, Tickers. And, and where I interviewed people who do what they love for a living. And so let's, let's take an example of there was a gentleman I interviewed who used to work in corporate IT, and then later he ended up teaching classes on his own. About a—it's an, it it's sort of like quality assurance. It's called CMMI, capability maturity model Indicator. But he teaches it—I know, right? Easy to say! 

But he teaches it in a really fun and entertaining way. So he took something that he was an expert in and made it fun. So he, in a sense, because he wasn't enjoying his corporate job, he ended up setting up his own shop. And now he does things his own way, sort of in a sense. He's rejuvenating even though he is doing his job. Does that make sense? 

Like, like, let's say we had talked in previous episodes about like jobs you had taken on, like for instance, do door-to-door sales, which wasn't your authentic identity. You took it on, you were able to, you know, figure it out. But it never did. It never was your authentic identity. It didn't really set well with who you really are.

John Voris (32:36):

Yeah. So your authentic identity is designed to direct your experiences in life. But it's an influence. It's, it doesn't control.

Kim Eley (32:50):

Gotcha.

John Voris (32:52):

Because many people, in fact, most of my clients that I see come and to be assessed because they are miserable at, at work, yet they chose that work.

Kim Eley (33:06):

Right.

John Voris (33:07):

Why they chose it because they were fulfilling the dreams of someone else.

Kim Eley (33:13):

So rejuvenation is not the same as escaping from a job that you don't enjoy.

John Voris (33:24):

Rejuvenation, it occurs independent of everything. You have to be independent of everything, because you have to re everyone rejuvenates. Even if you ha—if you—homeless, homeless people rejuvenate.

Kim Eley (33:40):

The—it's just part of who we are is, is we're on, I'm gonna call it on <laugh>, you know? And, and then we have to take time off. We're, we're, we're it, it, it, it's not, I, I guess because the reason I'm asking this is because I know a lot of people who will say, “oh, I hate my job. I can't wait to retire. I'm so glad I go on vacation because then I can escape from all that.” And I guess I just wanted to differentiate that kind of experience from—you can enjoy your job and still need to rejuvenate.

John Voris (34:14):

Well, getting back to why they, they're, they're unhappy with their job. , but they're still there. Right?

Kim Eley (34:21):

Right.

John Voris (34:22):

So there's a separation between doing and being.

Kim Eley (34:27):

Right.

John Voris (34:28):

So I love who I'm being, but I don't like what I'm doing.

Kim Eley (34:32):

Right. <Laugh>

John Voris (34:33):

I don't like who I'm being, but I love what I'm doing.

Kim Eley (34:37):

Hmm.

John Voris (34:38):

That's the trap. The people get caught in. 

Kim Eley (34:41):

Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>.

John Voris (34:41):

So I knew a gentleman who he, he worked for the IRS. And he did not like who he was being.

Kim Eley (34:54):

Mm.

John Voris (34:54):

He was an IRS agent. And he would go into companies and do their books, their audits. And so, but on the doing side, he loved accounting. So there's, there, there's the, there's, there's the tension.

Kim Eley (35:13):

Right.

John Voris (35:14):

So when they walk away and say, “I really hate my job,” they're, they, they don't like who they're being while they're doing.

Kim Eley (35:22):

Right.

John Voris (35:23):

And some people just and then it's the reverse. They love who they are, but they don't like what they're doing.

Kim Eley (35:31):

Right. Right.

John Voris (35:33):

Now, that's a good—that was consistent. All the attorneys that I've seen.

Kim Eley (35:39):

Oh, interesting.

John Voris (35:40):

Yes, they loved being an attorney, but they didn't like what they were doing.

Kim Eley (35:46):

So I'm trying to think, do, do you have an example of that?

John Voris (35:50):

Sure. For example just many people when I use the word justice, it just really means harmony, balance. Right?

Kim Eley (35:57):

Right.

John Voris (35:57):

And so a lot of attorneys are justice themes , and because of that, they have a very strict moral sense of what's going on. And so the people who I've talked to came from very corrupt firms.

Kim Eley (36:17):

Ooh.

John Voris (36:18):

And they would have them tack on hours that didn't exist and bill it. And so they loved being an attorney, but they didn't like what they were doing.

Kim Eley (36:28):

Ah.

John Voris (36:28):

And also can happen when, you know, if in—theoretically you're supposed to defend even the guilty. And so that's fine in theory, but then when you're doing it in a courtroom, it can be very, very awkward and something you don't want really wanna do for some. 

So they're all coming to me with different mixes of what they're doing and who they're being. And there's always tension.

John Voris (36:56):

So what you want is you wanna love who you're being, why you're loving what you're doing.

Kim Eley (37:00):

Yeah. That makes so much sense. I think that's what you really help people with doing with the assessments is, you know, they're, they're, they, maybe because we've talked about this before, if, if somebody is, let's say good at math, somebody could tell them you should be an accountant. But the example of the gentleman who's working for the IRS, he's like, “the accounting part. I like. The, the IRs part? Ugh. I don't like that part.”

John Voris (37:28):

Yes. And also whi—which does tie into rejuvenation, is knowing what the right problems are and the wrong ones.

Kim Eley (37:36):

Ooh.

John Voris (37:37):

Because the right problems are, for example the airplane crash was the right problem for the Wright Brothers.

Kim Eley (37:48):

Hmm. Okay. 

John Voris (37:49):

They would've inventing the airplane that was the right problem to have. That's why they were there. They needed to solve that issue.

Kim Eley (37:55):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (37:57):

Now, if they went into the hangar and their plane was stolen, that's the wrong problem.

Kim Eley (38:03):

<Laugh>, They're not fixing anything by solving the mystery of the missing airplane.

John Voris (38:08):

Right. Right. So I've had many people, again, come to me with career issues, and so I separate out the right problems are the ones that your boss hired you to solve.

Kim Eley (38:22):

Gotcha. Okay.

John Voris (38:24):

So what you've done is mixed and you've chosen those problems—

Kim Eley (38:29):

<Laugh>. Right. Right.

John Voris (38:32):

—so you can't mix those with problems you didn't create.

Kim Eley (38:37):

Ah, okay.

John Voris (38:39):

Separate those out, because some people get so overwhelmed with, they put, they put it all in one bag.

John Voris (38:45):

And, and they feel overwhelmed, but there is a right and a wrong problem.

Kim Eley (38:50):

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (38:52):

Or today's lingo, the right and wrong challenges.

Kim Eley (38:56):

Right. There we go. Right. There we go.

John Voris (38:59):

So then that has to do with rejuvenation. You might think you're focused on the wrong problems and, “oh my God, I've gotta escape,” and you're rejuvenating maybe too much because you're focused on the wrong issues.

Kim Eley (39:14):

Oh, interesting. It, it is that the same as trying to escape from a problem or, or avoid a problem?

John Voris (39:21):

You're avoiding you're avoiding a state that is existing that isn't a problem at all.

Kim Eley (39:27):

Ah, gotcha.

John Voris (39:27):

You're there to solve it. So if you were on a I did this to believe it or not, I had one client who was the manager of a chocolate factory.

Kim Eley (39:39):

Oh, wow.

John Voris (39:40):

Yeah. And so he was there because he was having problems with all of his employees. And he, he was just, he, he didn't know what to do about it. They wouldn't listen to him. And it was revolving door of employees quitting and, and it was a mess. 

And so I said, “well, you can solve this immediately.” And he said, “why, how'd you do that?” And I said, “quit.”

Kim Eley (40:09):

<Laugh>.

John Voris (40:13):

And so when, when he, I said, “quit,” I mean, you know, his jaw dropped. “What? I can't quit.” “Why can't you quit?”

Kim Eley (40:22):

Right. Okay. Okay.

John Voris (40:24):

Then he started talking about all of how he solved problems.

Kim Eley (40:28):

Right.

John Voris (40:29):

That's the, and so then, “I want you to see the other side of that is maybe your boss selected the wrong employees. This has nothing to do with you.”

Kim Eley (40:38):

Ah, so he's taking on, I'm, I'm guessing he was taking on responsibility for a, a problem, the wrong problem as you were describing. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

John Voris (40:50):

Yeah. And so if you have a belligerent employee, that's not part of the right problem to have.

Kim Eley (40:56):

Right.

John Voris (40:57):

That's outside of that, but you take that on and make you yourself responsible for a behavior you can't control.

Kim Eley (41:05):

Right. Wow, that's so fascinating. <Laugh>.

John Voris (41:10):

So I always said it, it, it—Authentic Systems is not about something fixing something, and it's about being aware of what's really going on.

Kim Eley (41:18):

Hmm. I love that. 

So, so speaking of being aware of what's going on I always encourage people to reach out to you and, and have an Authentic Systems assessment. So if somebody wanted to do that, how do they reach out to you?

John Voris (41:35):

You can, one is john@authentic-systems.com and that's an email directly to me.

Kim Eley (41:44):

Awesome.

John Voris (41:45):

You can also go to Authentic Systems on the internet at authentic-systems.com and see my website.

Kim Eley (41:53):

Fantastic. Excellent. Excellent. 

And yeah, I think this is so interesting and I think it's important for all of us to remember to rejuvenate, especially in this time of electronics. So yeah, rejuvenation is incredibly important and if anybody wants to know more, please feel free to reach out.

John, you're open to questions, is that right?

John Voris (42:25):

Absolutely.

Kim Eley (42:26):

Fantastic. So thank y'all again for listening and we've enjoyed this conversation and I hope y'all have as well.

John Voris (42:35):

Thank you.